Dear all,

Thank you for your support.=A0

=A0with regards

Dr. M. R. Ajayakumar

School of P= hysical Sciences

Jawaharlal Nehru University

New Delhi - 110 067

<= /div>

On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 7:45 PM, Thomas = Manz tmanz-#-nmsu.edu <= ;owner-chemist= ry|,|ccl.net> wrote:

Hi,

Also, Chargemol program (ddec.sourceforge.net) can read .wfx files and
compute Density Derived Electrostatic and Chemical (DDEC) charges.

Tom
On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 12:49 AM, Tian Lu sobereva() sina.com <owner-chemistry]^[ccl.ne= t> wrote:

Sent to CCL by: "Tian =A0Lu" [sobereva||sina.com]
Dear Cina,

This is not very true. Multiwfn program (http://multiwfn.codeplex.com) also fully suppo= rts .wfx file and supports the EDF field, which is defined in .wfx format t= o represent inner-core electron density.
Multiwfn can do AIM analysis quite well, and can also easily plot high-qual= ity contour map for numerous kinds of real space function (e.g. rho, laplac= ian of rho, ELF, LOL, eletrostatic potential, energy density...). Many rela= ted examples can be found in Section 4.2, 4.4 and 4.17 of the manual.

Best wishes,

Tian Lu

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cina Foroutan-Nejad canyslopus[*]yahoo.co.uk" <owner-chemistry . ccl.net>
To: "Lu, Tian " <sobereva . sina.com>
Subject: CCL: AIM2000 vs wfx file
Date: 2014-02-17 02:21

Dear Dr. Ajayakumar,

As you mentioned, the only software that supports auxiliary basis functions= is AIMAll. You have no choice unfortunately. AIM2000 neither supports auxi= liary basis functions nor g-functions; though, you will have no problem wit= h that since you are working with aug-cc-pvtz basis set.

Good luck,
Cina

---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---
Cina Foroutan-Nejad, PhD
National Center for Biochemical Researches,
Masaryk University, Brno,
Czech Republic
h= ttps://muni.academia.edu/CinaForoutanNejad

-=3D This is automatically added to each message by the mailing script =3D-=
E-mail to subscribers: CHEMISTRY]^[ccl.net or use:
=A0 =A0 =A0 http://www.ccl.net/cgi-bin/ccl/send_ccl_message

E-mail to administrators: CHEMISTRY-REQUEST]^[ccl.net or use
=A0 =A0 =A0 http://www.ccl.net/cgi-bin/ccl/send_ccl_message

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
=A0 =A0 =A0 http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/sub_unsub.shtml

Before posting, check wait time at: http://www.ccl.net

Job: http://www.ccl.n= et/jobs
Conferences: http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/announcements/co= nferences/

Search Messages: http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/searchccl/index.shtml
=A0 =A0 =A0 h= ttp://www.ccl.net/spammers.txt

RTFI: http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/aboutccl/instructions/

--001a11c360c64926b304f2a80e9b-- From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Tue Feb 18 08:29:01 2014 From: "Yuanping Yi ypyi{}iccas.ac.cn" To: CCL Subject: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49747-140218023231-20909-7hp5WbYxH/MyEMAnEtHjsw-$-server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: "Yuanping Yi" Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 02:32:29 -0500 Sent to CCL by: "Yuanping Yi" [ypyi{:}iccas.ac.cn] Before this event (so-called ICQC shame), the organizing committee of ICQC2015 had indeed been aware of gender inequality of the invited speakers in the incomplete list and asked all the members of IAQMS (the official governing body of ICQC) to recommend more speakers, especially female scienctists. More details can be found in the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A2=molecular-dynamics-news;f64a03fe.1402 > "Kadir Diri dirikadir[a]gmail.com" wrote: > > Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com] > Dear Colleagues, > > I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of the > many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the choice of > speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference. > > I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the leading > figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice of speakers > for this conference was just a statistical abnormality. Even that would > be unacceptable... > > Professor Krylov's message follows below. > > Best regards, > Kadir > --- > > > Dear Colleague: > > It happened again --- another major theoretical chemistry conference > features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting such > conferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 years later we are > still seeing such overt discrimination. This time it is the 15th > International Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC, > http://www.icqc2015.org) conducted under the auspices of International > Academy of Quantum Molecular Science (http://www.iaqms.org), which will > be held in Beijing, China. As of 02/15/2014, the program features 24 > invited speakers and 5 chairs and honorary chairs and does not include a > single woman. > > Are there no women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in > Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc) > lists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure track > academic positions or equivalent positions in industry and other > research establishments pursuing research in theoretical and > computational chemistry, biochemistry, material science, as well as > theoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of these women > are far more distinguished than many of the men being invited to speak > at these conferences. > > Feeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours by > signing this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this biased > practice, which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it will take > less than a minute). > > Thank you for your for your support. > > Prof. Emily Carter, Princeton University > Prof. Laura Gagliardi, University of Minnesota > Prof. Anna Krylov, University of Southern California > > From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Tue Feb 18 09:04:00 2014 From: "Sergio Manzetti sergio.manzetti|a|outlook.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: [CCL] Re: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49748-140218031728-26955-iDwhpjLhhjG4vdjdCiWwBw[]server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Sergio Manzetti Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_77c4c941-8f04-406a-9c45-1751ac6c6d9d_" Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 09:17:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: Sergio Manzetti [sergio.manzetti^-^outlook.com] --_77c4c941-8f04-406a-9c45-1751ac6c6d9d_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No. Boycotting is a silent attack on a non-attacking party. Attack leads t= o unpeaceful situations=2C and eventually it leads furthermore to tension a= nd LOUSY science. Read=2C study and don't fight. Fighting is for idiots. So thus is also boyc= otting. Besides=2C boycotting starts from a germ of disappointment=2C and i= ts qualiity trascends the entire reaction chain following boycott. Boycott is for idealists and politicians. They both end up like Joshka Fisc= her=2C living up against their own ideals and behaving like politicans. Cheers > From: owner-chemistry~~ccl.net > To: sergio.manzetti~~gmx.com > Subject: CCL: [CCL] Re: CCL: ICQC shame > Date: Mon=2C 17 Feb 2014 12:21:52 -0500 >=20 >=20 > Sent to CCL by: "N. Sukumar" [nagams++rpi.edu] > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DOriginal message text=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > On Mon=2C 17 Feb 2014 4:25:03 EST "Sergio Manzetti > sergio.manzetti:-:outlook.com" wrote: >=20 > ... if one feels that some people are unfair=2C why associate with them? > Associate with someone else... >=20 > Sergio >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DEnd of original message text=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > But that is precisely what Kadir has suggested! We (men AND women) who > find the situation unfair are pledging to boycott ("not associate with") > the said conference unless the situation is remedied=2C and urging > like-minded people to do likewise. >=20 > Those who find the imbalance acceptable or those who feel that "it's not > my problem=2C let the politicians fix it" are free to do as they wish. >=20 > N. Sukumar > Professor of Chemistry > Shiv Nadar University=2C India > ---------------------------- > "Pursue something so important that even if you fail=2C the world is bett= er=20 > off with you having tried." -- Tim O'Reilly > http://as.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0470769009.html >=20 >=20 >=20 > -=3D This is automatically added to each message by the mailing script = =3D- > To recover the email address of the author of the message=2C please chang= e>=20>=20>=20 > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:=20>=20 > Before posting=2C check wait time at: http://www.ccl.net >=20 > Job: http://www.ccl.net/jobs=20>=20>=20 > If your mail bounces from CCL with 5.7.1 error=2C check:>=20>=20 >=20 = --_77c4c941-8f04-406a-9c45-1751ac6c6d9d_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

No. Boycotting is a silent attac= k on a non-attacking party. =3B Attack leads to unpeaceful situations= =2C and eventually it leads furthermore to tension and LOUSY science.
Read=2C study and don't fight. Fighting is for idiots. So thus is also bo= ycotting. Besides=2C boycotting starts from a germ of disappointment=2C and= its qualiity trascends the entire reaction chain following boycott.
Boycott is for idealists and politicians. They both end up like Joshka Fis= cher=2C living up against their own ideals and behaving like politicans.
Cheers

>=3B From: owner-chemistry~~ccl.net
>= =3B To: sergio.manzetti~~gmx.com
>=3B Subject: CCL: [CCL] Re: CCL: ICQC= shame
>=3B Date: Mon=2C 17 Feb 2014 12:21:52 -0500
>=3B
>= =3B
>=3B Sent to CCL by: "N. Sukumar" [nagams++rpi.edu]
>=3B =3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DOriginal message text=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>=3B On Mon=2C 17 Feb 2014 4:25:03 EST = "Sergio Manzetti
>=3B sergio.manzetti:-:outlook.com" wrote:
>=3B =
>=3B ... if one feels that some people are unfair=2C why associate wi= th them?
>=3B Associate with someone else...
>=3B
>=3B Serg= io
>=3B
>=3B =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DEnd of original me= ssage text=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>=3B
>=3B But that i= s precisely what Kadir has suggested! We (men AND women) who
>=3B find= the situation unfair are pledging to boycott ("not associate with")
>= =3B the said conference unless the situation is remedied=2C and urging
&= gt=3B like-minded people to do likewise.
>=3B
>=3B Those who fin= d the imbalance acceptable or those who feel that "it's not
>=3B my pr= oblem=2C let the politicians fix it" are free to do as they wish.
>=3B=
>=3B N. Sukumar
>=3B Professor of Chemistry
>=3B Shiv Nada= r University=2C India
>=3B ----------------------------
>=3B "Pur= sue something so important that even if you fail=2C the world is better >=3B off with you having tried." -- Tim O'Reilly
>=3B http://as.wil= ey.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0470769009.html
>=3B
>=3B <= br>>=3B
>=3B -=3D This is automatically added to each message by th= e mailing script =3D-
>=3B To recover the email address of the author = of the message=2C please change
>=3B the strange characters on the top= line to the ~~ sign. You can also
>=3B look up the X-Original-From: li= ne in the mail header.
>=3B
>=3B E-mail to subscribers: CHEMISTR= Y~~ccl.net or use:
>=3B http://www.ccl.net/cgi-bin/ccl/send_ccl_m= essage
>=3B
>=3B E-mail to administrators: CHEMISTRY-REQUEST~~ccl= .net or use
>=3B=
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B http://www.cc= l.net/chemistry/sub_unsub.shtml
>=3B
>=3B Before posting=2C chec= k wait time at: http://www.ccl.net
>=3B
>=3B Job: http://www.ccl= .net/jobs
>=3B Conferences: http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/announcem= ents/conferences/
>=3B
>=3B Search Messages: http://www.ccl.net/= chemistry/searchccl/index.shtml
>=3B
>=3B If your mail bounces f= rom CCL with 5.7.1 error=2C check:
>=3B http://www.ccl.net/spamm= ers.txt
>=3B
>=3B RTFI: http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/aboutccl/in= structions/
>=3B
>=3B

= --_77c4c941-8f04-406a-9c45-1751ac6c6d9d_-- From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Tue Feb 18 09:39:00 2014 From: "Goedele Roos groos++vub.ac.be" To: CCL Subject: CCL: Computational Chemistry, algorithms, and the people who create them Message-Id: <-49749-140218044803-3446-IY0NyV7+o80CQH+/S8gyow#%#server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Goedele Roos Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 10:47:13 +0100 Sent to CCL by: Goedele Roos [groos,+,vub.ac.be] Dear Jim, As a women, I agree with you...don't complain, make your choices...For me at this stage in my life, I prefer reading bed time stories over making nice presentations or attending evening board meetings. However, I feel that some changes need to be made, by women, men, all people. If you want to make women more visible, one needs to put effort in women (mother)-friendly facilities: virtual meetings and conferences (this should be no problem these days!), child care facilities on conference venues, no evening meetings between 5-8 pm, realizing that not only the publication output counts (or the number of presentations or international visits), but the ideas formulated in a project proposal. As a mother, I don't have time to work on my PR for my work. I don't have time to make cover pictures, nice websites, travelling to other research groups, going to several conferences a year...Well, I can make time, but for me my most important "job" now is taking care of the children. Men can engage more in the scientific community and they become professors, heads of departments. Every women has to decide for herself where the priorities are (scienec or children). But is it a fair choice? I don't think so. Therefore, some structural changes are needed so that invisible women in science become more visible and that no choice between career and children has to be made. I also don't believe in boycots or quota, but I strongly believe in women stepping up and discussing the problems they face. Best regards, Goedele > >Sent to CCL by: "Jim Kress" [ccl_nospam[-]kressworks.com] >Hi Chris and other responders, > >Just so you can be more aware of my context and perspective: > >In my career in industry, I made it a point to find and promote the most >qualified engineers and scientists I could locate. I do the same in my >current nonprofit scientific research organization. The only characteristic >I care about are is the person I hire better than me (since I believe the >best people higher better people than they to work with them). > >One interesting result of this philosophy was that I wound up with a large >number of women working with me and advancing their careers as a result of >my ensuring their superior qualifications and WORK PRODUCT were made well >known to ALL levels of management. I did not do this out of a sense of >Political Correctness, since the really qualified, hardworking, superior >female engineers and scientists were offended when they thought that was the >criteria which was to be used to govern their advancement. I did this >because they EARNED it. > >One example is a good friend of mine. She EARNED a BSCE, BSEE, MSEE from U >of M Ann Arbor. It wasn't given to her due to her gender, girth, nose size, >etc. She WORKED for it. She pushed herself to the limit of her (extremely >high) capabilities and EARNED her credentials with honors. She then went >into the work force and EARNED her senior management position, where she is >responsible for a $1 billion of business products, WORKING her way up from a >starting engineer to her current management position. She didn't whine >about gender diversity, she IGNORED it. When people tried to use it as a >tool on her behalf, she BERATED them for doing so. She was, and is, >defining herself by the quality of her WORK, not the physiological >configuration of her genitalia. She became, and is, the best Engineer and >Engineering Management in her company. > >She did not whine, mope about and claim "discrimination". She did not >boycott or expect a collective of her colleagues to advance her due to her >gender. She refused and denigrated that approach. > >In fact, when I showed her the CCL emails she was incensed and disgusted by >the inadequacy and refusal of the complaining women (and men) who were >signing petitions, talking about how horrible the people were who disagreed >with the complainers as well as the organizers of the ICQC. > >She has succeeded on her own merits. When she met a barrier, she WORKED >around it. She didn't just stop, whine and complain. She WORKED with the >people with whom she needed to advance her career. She didn't organize >boycotts of them. > >Bottom line: don't whine, complain, boycott, etc. against so-called "gender >inequity", work around it. Organize your own conferences, Demonstrate your >own abilities and superior qualifications. Get rid of the "entitlement >mentality" and go earn and/ or make your own place in the field. That's >what real, successful people do. > >Jim > > >-----Original Message----- >> From: owner-chemistry+ccl_nospam==kressworks.com]-[ccl.net >[mailto:owner-chemistry+ccl_nospam==kressworks.com]-[ccl.net] On Behalf Of >Christopher Cramer cramer- -umn.edu >Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2014 10:24 PM >To: Kress, Jim >Subject: CCL: Computational Chemistry, algorithms, and the people who create >them > > >Sent to CCL by: Christopher Cramer [cramer__umn.edu] All, > > I've been a CCL member since 1989 or so. (Is that about right, Jan?) >During that time, I have not posted particularly frequently; but, when I've >felt that I could contribute in a productive way, I've done my best to >advance our field and assist friends and colleagues by commenting on issues >raised in this forum. > > The recent exchanges about ICQC 2015, focusing on the lack of gender >diversity in its original speaker list, and the subsequent back-and-forth as >to whether that is a suitable topic for CCL, or even an issue to be >concerned about in general, prompts me to this post. Especially, I feel >obliged to reply to Jim Kress, in what I hope is a respectful fashion. > > Jim, you make a living at computational chemistry, i.e., it probably pays >your mortgage. Moreover you are a supporter of CCL with actual dollars; >thank you for that -- your generosity benefits all of us. As such, I can >understand how for you, the value of the forum is in the degree to which it >helps you stay on top of the nuts and bolts of the field, and in that regard >I hope that my own occasional posts on topics like partial charges, >solvation models, etc. have proven useful to you. We've also exchanged >email outside of CCL, including very recently, in what I hope has always >been a cordial fashion. > > However, I now hope that you will accept that I, as an academic who is >charged in part with training the NEXT generation of computational chemists, >may have a more expansive view of what is appropriate for CCL than your own. >> From my point of view, if there is something that is hindering the most >efficient progress in our field, even if that "something" might fall into >the dreaded area of "social science", then attempting to address it through >CCL is not merely appropriate, it is worthy of advocacy! > > You (and others) raised the question of whether the selection criteria of >the ICQC 2015 organizers was known, whether anyone had contacted them, etc. >Actually, one of the organizers posted on a separate mailing list (devoted >to molecular dynamics), that the 26 male speakers had been selected from a >slate of 27 (evidently, the one woman had failed to respond). He was shocked >that anyone might think that inviting 3.8% female speakers might be regarded >as inadequate. He went on to note that upon reviewing the end result, he >then solicited suggestions from IAQMS members for some remaining speakers, >asking in particular for women. Certainly, if _I_ were a woman, I'd be >thrilled to know that my chief qualification for a subsequent invitation was >not my science, but a desire to achieve gender balance after the "real" >speakers were selected. For the record, you can find this post at >https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A2=ind1402&L=molecular-dynamics- >news&F=&S=&P=13069 > > Jim, I've trained roughly 100 undergraduate, graduate, and postdoctoral >co-workers. I admit that it pains me that I KNOW that the women members of >that group will face discrimination that will make it much harder for them >to achieve their full potential than will be the case for my former male >co-workers. I say that not because I subscribe to a belief in "evil" (as you >put it), but rather to an acceptance of the extremely well documented >phenomenon of implicit bias. We are all creatures of our culture and, >worldwide, there is a culture in science that works against women that >reflects hundreds of years of history and tradition. There is a lot of >scholarship in this area, but the most recent example was published in PNAS >in 2012 and showed that, when presented with resumes for lab managers that >were in every way identical except for the name of the fictitious >individual, scientists (men AND women) ranked the man significantly more >highly than the woman and offered "him" a ! > starting salary significantly higher than that offered to "her". These >weren't "evil" people, they were just people formed by their own backgrounds >and experiences. The PNAS study is available at >http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/09/14/1211286109 > > But, let me come back to the bottom line, Jim, which I suspect you >consider important. What if it's a woman who has the next big breakthrough >idea that advances our field dramatically? And, what if she can't get that >idea recognized as quickly precisely because implicit bias slows >appreciation for her scholarship? You'll suffer, too, as you won't be able >to offer your clients a service that you otherwise would have become more >rapidly aware of. We all like to believe that cream rises to the top, but, >in all honesty, "it's not what you do, it's who you know" goes a long way in >science, too. Aurora Clark has already posted eloquently here on the topic >of how proactive steps to increase diversity propagate to the next >generation, so I won't belabor this point. > > Returning to the specifics, I've been around in this field a long time. I >think that I can legitimately claim to have earned a certain level of >experience to comment. Do I think that the International Academy of Quantum >Molecular Science is ridiculously dominated by old white guys? (I say this >as an old white guy.) Well, yes, I do. Have I attended ICQC meetings and >been struck by the cronyism in the field and the repetitive speakers >rosters? Um, yes, I have. Happily, I am at a stage in my career and a level >of privilege that I can say suicidal things like this and not. really. give >a damn. But the call for a boycott by my colleagues Professors Carter, >Gagliardi, and Krylov was not motivated by a one-time gaffe - it followed >years and years of frustration, and the ICQC 2015 speakers list was the >straw that broke their respective colloquial camels' backs. > > You called this entire discussion "politically correct". Hmm. Politics is >the means by which groups of people come to collective decisions. Taken at >literal face value, politically correct sounds like a good thing to me. In >the United States, once it was politically correct to abolish slavery, >provide women voting rights, eliminate school segregation, eliminate >anti-miscegenation laws, and, most recently, secure the marriage rights of >our gay and lesbian citizens. If advocating for gender equality in science >puts me in the same category as earlier advocates for any of those >positions, call me proud to have them as compatriots. > > Some full disclosures: (1) I'm married to one of the three women >signatories of the original call for a boycott. I'm ridiculously proud to >have her as a partner. (2) As an Associate Dean, my portfolio includes >responsibility for trying to increase the representation of women and >underrepresented minorities in my college's graduate students, postdocs, and >faculty. I care about that passionately. (3) The ICQC organizer to whom I >refer to above is a member of the editorial board for the journal for which >I am Editor in Chief. Small world, no? (4) I write posts that are way too >long. Sorry. > >Chris >-- >Christopher J. Cramer >Elmore H. Northey Professor and > Associate Dean for Academic Affairs >University of Minnesota >Department of Chemistry and > College of Science & Engineering >Minneapolis, MN 55455-0431 >Phone: (612) 624-0859 (Chemistry) >Phone: (612) 624-9371 (CSE) >-------------------------- >Mobile: (952) 297-2575 >Email: cramer:umn.edu >Twitter: :ChemProfCramer >Website: http://pollux.chem.umn.eduhttp://www.ccl.net/cgi-bin/ccl/send_ccl_messagehttp://www.ccl.net/chemistry/sub_unsub.shtmlhttp://www.ccl.net/spammers.txt> > > > _____________________________ Goedele Roos, PhD Department of General Chemistry http://we.vub.ac.be/~algc/ VIB, Department of Structural Biology, Vrije Universiteit Brussel | http://www.structuralbiology.be/ Brussels Center for Redox Biology | http://redox.vub.ac.be/ Vrije Universiteit Brussel, Building G, room 10G714 Pleinlaan 2, 1050 Brussels,Belgium phone: +32 2 6293312 fax: +32 2 6293317 E-mail: groos|vub.ac.be From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Tue Feb 18 10:14:00 2014 From: "Goedele Roos groos,+,vub.ac.be" To: CCL Subject: CCL: Computational Chemistry, algorithms, and the people who create them Message-Id: <-49750-140218045257-4062-ZybRhjhzkf1PcfbBeBGiIw#%#server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Goedele Roos Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 10:52:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: Goedele Roos [groos()vub.ac.be] >Dear Jim, As a women, I agree with you...don't complain, make your choices...For me at this stage in my life, I prefer reading bed time stories over making nice presentations or attending evening board meetings. However, I feel that some changes need to be made, by women, men, all people. If you want to make women more visible, one needs to put effort in women (mother)-friendly facilities: virtual meetings and conferences (this should be no problem these days!), child care facilities on conference venues, no evening meetings between 5-8 pm, realizing that not only the publication output counts (or the number of presentations or international visits), but the ideas formulated in a project proposal. As a mother, I don't have time to work on my PR for my work. I don't have time to make cover pictures, nice websites, travelling to other research groups, going to several conferences a year...Well, I can make time, but for me my most important "job" now is taking care of the children. Men can engage more in the scientific community and they become professors, heads of departments. Every women has to decide for herself where the priorities are (scienec or children). But is it a fair choice? I don't think so. Therefore, some structural changes are needed so that invisible women in science become more visible and that no choice between career and children has to be made. I also don't believe in boycots or quota, but I strongly believe in women stepping up and discussing the problems they face. Best regards, Goedele > >Every person who has travelled a difficult path has a story to tell and it >is psychologically normal to demean the experiences of others by saying >how much harder it was for them, or that they "didn't whine mope or >complain" so why should anyone else? > >I've had a hard path, I had 4 kids pre-tenure with no clock extension and >I keep my level of research productivity and quality at a level I am happy >with - and, yeah - I selfishly feel like it was harder than that you >describe below�it is human nature to try and make it into a contest of >who suffered worse. But I also made that choice, just like I made a choice >to be at an institution where I felt that gender biases were at a minimum. >I have actively chosen to surround myself with colleagues where this is >not an issue. There are other women on this list who got tenure while >being single mothers (which I am not), or experienced tremendous sexism >during the course of their careers (which I never have), and they made >choices and had the support of others and were smart and savvy enough to >be at the top of this field. Good for them! - they and your friend below >are great role models for the next generation of women in STEM. > >Talking about an issue is not whining. Calling out organizers for not >doing their job well is not moping because you weren't invited to the big >kids club. The idea that anyone is advocating the forced invitations of >women that haven't earned the right to be invited is absolutely ludicrous >- the whole premise of this discussion was that there are many many women >who are incredibly well qualified, people who have demonstrated their own >qualifications several times over. These are real, successful people�many >of them I have looked up to and have acted as mentors to me and helped me >to be successful in my own career by giving me the opportunity to prove >myself (or not - sometimes I completely and utterly make an ass of >myself). Nevertheless, to presume that a person is advocating change >because of an attitude of entitlement is really a terrible thing to say >and you should be ashamed of yourself. > >While I know CCL can get on tangents, the main premise that we have openly >discussed is that there are still people in very important positions >within our discipline that aren't being very good citizens. Peer pressure >is a beautiful thing and while I have been disappointed that more "old >white guys" like Chris haven't piped up (THANK YOU CHRIS AND OTHERS FOR >DOING SO), perhaps this discussion will make others take notice. > >I don't think we should make this a bullying thing - but I do think that >if you as an organizer don't make an effort to bring in ALL qualified >people to the table in a public forum - then you should be held >accountable, because, as I stated before, there are real and important >ramifications of this bias�if enough people hold others accountable in >public and private conversations then perhaps things will change. > > >A > > > >Aurora Clark >Associate Professo >Department of Chemistry >Washington State University >Pullman, Wa 99164 >Ph: 509-335-3362 >Fax: 509-335-8867 > > > > > > >On 2/17/14 8:23 AM, "Jim Kress ccl_nospam:kressworks.com" > wrote: > >> >>Sent to CCL by: "Jim Kress" [ccl_nospam[-]kressworks.com] >>Hi Chris and other responders, >> >>Just so you can be more aware of my context and perspective: >> >>In my career in industry, I made it a point to find and promote the most >>qualified engineers and scientists I could locate. I do the same in my >>current nonprofit scientific research organization. The only >>characteristic >>I care about are is the person I hire better than me (since I believe the >>best people higher better people than they to work with them). >> >>One interesting result of this philosophy was that I wound up with a large >>number of women working with me and advancing their careers as a result of >>my ensuring their superior qualifications and WORK PRODUCT were made well >>known to ALL levels of management. I did not do this out of a sense of >>Political Correctness, since the really qualified, hardworking, superior >>female engineers and scientists were offended when they thought that was >>the >>criteria which was to be used to govern their advancement. I did this >>because they EARNED it. >> >>One example is a good friend of mine. She EARNED a BSCE, BSEE, MSEE from >>U >>of M Ann Arbor. It wasn't given to her due to her gender, girth, nose >>size, >>etc. She WORKED for it. She pushed herself to the limit of her >>(extremely >>high) capabilities and EARNED her credentials with honors. She then went >>into the work force and EARNED her senior management position, where she >>is >>responsible for a $1 billion of business products, WORKING her way up >>from a >>starting engineer to her current management position. She didn't whine >>about gender diversity, she IGNORED it. When people tried to use it as a >>tool on her behalf, she BERATED them for doing so. She was, and is, >>defining herself by the quality of her WORK, not the physiological >>configuration of her genitalia. She became, and is, the best Engineer and >>Engineering Management in her company. >> >>She did not whine, mope about and claim "discrimination". She did not >>boycott or expect a collective of her colleagues to advance her due to her >>gender. She refused and denigrated that approach. >> >>In fact, when I showed her the CCL emails she was incensed and disgusted >>by >>the inadequacy and refusal of the complaining women (and men) who were >>signing petitions, talking about how horrible the people were who >>disagreed >>with the complainers as well as the organizers of the ICQC. >> >>She has succeeded on her own merits. When she met a barrier, she WORKED >>around it. She didn't just stop, whine and complain. She WORKED with the >>people with whom she needed to advance her career. She didn't organize >>boycotts of them. >> >>Bottom line: don't whine, complain, boycott, etc. against so-called >>"gender >>inequity", work around it. Organize your own conferences, Demonstrate >>your >>own abilities and superior qualifications. Get rid of the "entitlement >>mentality" and go earn and/ or make your own place in the field. That's >>what real, successful people do. >> >>Jim >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-chemistry+ccl_nospam==kressworks.com]-[ccl.net >>[mailto:owner-chemistry+ccl_nospam==kressworks.com]-[ccl.net] On Behalf Of >>Christopher Cramer cramer- -umn.edu >>Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2014 10:24 PM >>To: Kress, Jim >>Subject: CCL: Computational Chemistry, algorithms, and the people who >>create >>them >> >> >>Sent to CCL by: Christopher Cramer [cramer__umn.edu] All, >> >> I've been a CCL member since 1989 or so. (Is that about right, Jan?) >>During that time, I have not posted particularly frequently; but, when >>I've >>felt that I could contribute in a productive way, I've done my best to >>advance our field and assist friends and colleagues by commenting on >>issues >>raised in this forum. >> >> The recent exchanges about ICQC 2015, focusing on the lack of gender >>diversity in its original speaker list, and the subsequent back-and-forth >>as >>to whether that is a suitable topic for CCL, or even an issue to be >>concerned about in general, prompts me to this post. Especially, I feel >>obliged to reply to Jim Kress, in what I hope is a respectful fashion. >> >> Jim, you make a living at computational chemistry, i.e., it probably >>pays >>your mortgage. Moreover you are a supporter of CCL with actual dollars; >>thank you for that -- your generosity benefits all of us. As such, I can >>understand how for you, the value of the forum is in the degree to which >>it >>helps you stay on top of the nuts and bolts of the field, and in that >>regard >>I hope that my own occasional posts on topics like partial charges, >>solvation models, etc. have proven useful to you. We've also exchanged >>email outside of CCL, including very recently, in what I hope has always >>been a cordial fashion. >> >> However, I now hope that you will accept that I, as an academic who is >>charged in part with training the NEXT generation of computational >>chemists, >>may have a more expansive view of what is appropriate for CCL than your >>own. >>> From my point of view, if there is something that is hindering the most >>efficient progress in our field, even if that "something" might fall into >>the dreaded area of "social science", then attempting to address it >>through >>CCL is not merely appropriate, it is worthy of advocacy! >> >> You (and others) raised the question of whether the selection criteria >>of >>the ICQC 2015 organizers was known, whether anyone had contacted them, >>etc. >>Actually, one of the organizers posted on a separate mailing list (devoted >>to molecular dynamics), that the 26 male speakers had been selected from a >>slate of 27 (evidently, the one woman had failed to respond). He was >>shocked >>that anyone might think that inviting 3.8% female speakers might be >>regarded >>as inadequate. He went on to note that upon reviewing the end result, he >>then solicited suggestions from IAQMS members for some remaining speakers, >>asking in particular for women. Certainly, if _I_ were a woman, I'd be >>thrilled to know that my chief qualification for a subsequent invitation >>was >>not my science, but a desire to achieve gender balance after the "real" >>speakers were selected. For the record, you can find this post at >>https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A2=ind1402&L=molecular-dynamic >>s- >>news&F=&S=&P=13069 >> >> Jim, I've trained roughly 100 undergraduate, graduate, and postdoctoral >>co-workers. I admit that it pains me that I KNOW that the women members of >>that group will face discrimination that will make it much harder for them >>to achieve their full potential than will be the case for my former male >>co-workers. I say that not because I subscribe to a belief in "evil" (as >>you >>put it), but rather to an acceptance of the extremely well documented >>phenomenon of implicit bias. We are all creatures of our culture and, >>worldwide, there is a culture in science that works against women that >>reflects hundreds of years of history and tradition. There is a lot of >>scholarship in this area, but the most recent example was published in >>PNAS >>in 2012 and showed that, when presented with resumes for lab managers that >>were in every way identical except for the name of the fictitious >>individual, scientists (men AND women) ranked the man significantly more >>highly than the woman and offered "him" a ! >> starting salary significantly higher than that offered to "her". These >>weren't "evil" people, they were just people formed by their own >>backgrounds >>and experiences. The PNAS study is available at >>http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/09/14/1211286109 >> >> But, let me come back to the bottom line, Jim, which I suspect you >>consider important. What if it's a woman who has the next big breakthrough >>idea that advances our field dramatically? And, what if she can't get that >>idea recognized as quickly precisely because implicit bias slows >>appreciation for her scholarship? You'll suffer, too, as you won't be able >>to offer your clients a service that you otherwise would have become more >>rapidly aware of. We all like to believe that cream rises to the top, but, >>in all honesty, "it's not what you do, it's who you know" goes a long way >>in >>science, too. Aurora Clark has already posted eloquently here on the topic >>of how proactive steps to increase diversity propagate to the next >>generation, so I won't belabor this point. >> >> Returning to the specifics, I've been around in this field a long >>time. I >>think that I can legitimately claim to have earned a certain level of >>experience to comment. Do I think that the International Academy of >>Quantum >>Molecular Science is ridiculously dominated by old white guys? (I say this >>as an old white guy.) Well, yes, I do. Have I attended ICQC meetings and >>been struck by the cronyism in the field and the repetitive speakers >>rosters? Um, yes, I have. Happily, I am at a stage in my career and a >>level >>of privilege that I can say suicidal things like this and not. really. >>give >>a damn. But the call for a boycott by my colleagues Professors Carter, >>Gagliardi, and Krylov was not motivated by a one-time gaffe - it followed >>years and years of frustration, and the ICQC 2015 speakers list was the >>straw that broke their respective colloquial camels' backs. >> >> You called this entire discussion "politically correct". Hmm. Politics >>is >>the means by which groups of people come to collective decisions. Taken at >>literal face value, politically correct sounds like a good thing to me. In >>the United States, once it was politically correct to abolish slavery, >>provide women voting rights, eliminate school segregation, eliminate >>anti-miscegenation laws, and, most recently, secure the marriage rights of >>our gay and lesbian citizens. If advocating for gender equality in science >>puts me in the same category as earlier advocates for any of those >>positions, call me proud to have them as compatriots. >> >> Some full disclosures: (1) I'm married to one of the three women >>signatories of the original call for a boycott. I'm ridiculously proud to >>have her as a partner. (2) As an Associate Dean, my portfolio includes >>responsibility for trying to increase the representation of women and >>underrepresented minorities in my college's graduate students, postdocs, >>and >>faculty. I care about that passionately. (3) The ICQC organizer to whom I >>refer to above is a member of the editorial board for the journal for >>which >>I am Editor in Chief. Small world, no? (4) I write posts that are way too >>long. Sorry. >> >>Chris >>-- >>Christopher J. Cramer >>Elmore H. Northey Professor and >> Associate Dean for Academic Affairs >>University of Minnesota >>Department of Chemistry and >> College of Science & Engineering >>Minneapolis, MN 55455-0431 >>Phone: (612) 624-0859 (Chemistry) >>Phone: (612) 624-9371 (CSE) >>-------------------------- >>Mobile: (952) 297-2575 >>Email: cramer:umn.edu >>Twitter: :ChemProfCramer >>Website: >>http://pollux.chem.umn.eduhttp://www.ccl.net/cgi-bin/ccl/send_ccl_messageh >>ttp://www.ccl.net/chemistry/sub_unsub.shtmlhttp://www.ccl.net/spammers.txt> > > > _____________________________ Goedele Roos, PhD Department of General Chemistry http://we.vub.ac.be/~algc/ VIB, Department of Structural Biology, Vrije Universiteit Brussel | http://www.structuralbiology.be/ Brussels Center for Redox Biology | http://redox.vub.ac.be/ Vrije Universiteit Brussel, Building G, room 10G714 Pleinlaan 2, 1050 Brussels,Belgium phone: +32 2 6293312 fax: +32 2 6293317 E-mail: groos---vub.ac.be From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Tue Feb 18 10:49:00 2014 From: "Goedele Roos groos]![vub.ac.be" To: CCL Subject: CCL: gender issues Message-Id: <-49751-140218045737-4467-KqkMc6H0HIs0GY98wQK4yw * server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Goedele Roos Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 10:57:28 +0100 Sent to CCL by: Goedele Roos [groos!=!vub.ac.be] Dear Jim an others, As a women, I agree with Jim...don't complain, make your choices...For me at this stage in my life, I prefer reading bed time stories over making nice presentations or attending evening board meetings. However, I feel that some changes need to be made, by women, men, all people. If you want to make women more visible, one needs to put effort in women (mother)-friendly facilities: virtual meetings and conferences (this should be no problem these days!), child care facilities on conference venues, no evening meetings between 5-8 pm, realizing that not only the publication output counts (or the number of presentations or international visits), but the ideas formulated in a project proposal. As a mother, I don't have time to work on my PR for my work. I don't have time to make cover pictures, nice websites, travelling to other research groups, going to several conferences a year...Well, I can make time, but for me my most important "job" now is taking care of the children. Men can engage more in the scientific community and they become professors, heads of departments. Every women has to decide for herself where the priorities are (scienec or children). But is it a fair choice? I don't think so. Therefore, some structural changes are needed so that invisible women in science become more visible and that no choice between career and children has to be made. I also don't believe in boycots or quota, but I strongly believe in women stepping up and discussing the problems they face. I believe in women building their career, but not in a men-orientated setting. therefore, women should take initiative to make things better for them, not by complaining, but organizing! Best regards, Goedele _____________________________ Goedele Roos, PhD Department of General Chemistry http://we.vub.ac.be/~algc/ VIB, Department of Structural Biology, Vrije Universiteit Brussel | http://www.structuralbiology.be/ Brussels Center for Redox Biology | http://redox.vub.ac.be/ Vrije Universiteit Brussel, Building G, room 10G714 Pleinlaan 2, 1050 Brussels,Belgium phone: +32 2 6293312 fax: +32 2 6293317 E-mail: groos^vub.ac.be From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Tue Feb 18 12:52:01 2014 From: "Jason Swails jason.swails(-)gmail.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: Computational Chemistry, algorithms, and the people who create them Message-Id: <-49752-140218091421-24112-76LhEpaB9XqRzp7YFwl1Gw#server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Jason Swails Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf303e9fdcfd6aa604f2aee266 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 09:14:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: Jason Swails [jason.swails:-:gmail.com] --20cf303e9fdcfd6aa604f2aee266 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 11:01 PM, Jim Kress ccl_nospam^^kressworks.com < owner-chemistry{=}ccl.net> wrote: > > Sent to CCL by: "Jim Kress" [ccl_nospam(a)kressworks.com] > My last submission on this topic. > > > The suggestion of organize your own conferences has been made several > times. > > Good. > > > We are not talking about relatively small local conferences. > > So what? Have you heard of this thing call "The Internet?" What about > streaming video, webinars, web conferencing, MOOCs, etc.? Technology is > your friend in your efforts. USE IT. > > > The Congresses organized by IAQMS, along with the WATOC conferences, are > the most important international conferences in our field. > > Until you WORK to MAKE BETTER ONES. > What about making the existing ones better? > > We cannot start from scratch. > > Winners always start from scratch. Others use this "we can't do it" as an > excuse. How did the current conferences start? Did they magically spring > > from the heads of the (at that time) evil younger white men, like Athena > springing from the head of Zeus? No! They "started from scratch" and > worked very hard to build better conferences. > I tend to disagree. Winners never start from scratch -- that's precisely why they're winners. Things are refined over time by working out kinks, bugs, and inefficiencies; eliminating mistakes and streamlining processes. Did the current meetings spring into being overnight? No, they were refined and evolved; hundreds of thousands (probably orders of magnitude more) of (wo)man-hours went in to making these conferences what they are. These meetings start as little conference meetings between a few people and grow slowly, evolving into the meetings that they are today. It's unreasonable to think that the time and effort required to 'start over' will be many orders of magnitude lower than the time and effort required to implement the first ones (in fact, if you truly started FROM SCRATCH, it should take precisely the same time and effort). Even the most revolutionary of scientific discoveries that cast off misconceptions and find new ways to think about problems are, in most points of view, only a small tangent from the wealth of knowledge and experience that preceded them. Had Einstein 'started from scratch' (truly > from scratch), he would never have postulated General Relativity. In the software community, recoding a program 'from scratch' is disastrous (why do you think Netscape has all but disappeared?) [ http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html]. To say that, if we want meetings devoid of descrimination, we must create whole new meetings is to cripple the engine of progress. Why should these women have to *stop* working on their science and instead devote their time and money to design, start, advertise, and organize their own inclusive meeting? There simply aren't enough hours in the day to do both. There are many examples where working to change an existing system is far better than creating a whole new one (like the bus boycott of the civil rights movement contrasted to minorities starting a bus system 'from scratch' and the fight for universal suffrage as opposed to 'starting a new government from scratch where everybody can vote'). While some of these examples are extreme, the benefits of a similar strategy here have strong parallels. If people who TALK about making a difference are unwilling to WORK to make a > difference, then they are being intellectually dishonest. > The 3 OPs, Profs. Carter, Krylov, and Gagliardi, got where they were due to their talent and determination, and they have worked (hard and successfully) to make a difference in their field. This statement attempts to tie proponents of this thread to lazy, entitled complainers and is, quite frankly, insulting and untrue. The friend I mentioned in my prior note organized, FROM SCRATCH, an internal > professional organization to help women progress and be recognized FOR > THEIR > ACCOMPLISHMENTS within her Fortune 100 company. She started in the US. > That organization now spans the planet and has helped advance numerous > people (men and women). > > > We have to reform and develop what we have. > > No. You can, and should, make better conferences. > Finis. This is my last submission on this topic. I have more important > things to do. > These are good topics to discuss. A common fallacious argument I see in your posts is that anyone that spends time discussing these things in a forum such as this is _not_ doing anything else and is simply sitting back and complaining. The "stop complaining and work around it" attitude has been used for centuries to reinforce and support discrimination, and all that's offered in return is the complement that "women are talented enough to do so" because "I've seen one or two of those women for myself." It is important to recognize discrimination when it is so obvious, because only when we recognize a problem can we work to correct it. I thank the OPs for their letter, and especially Chris Cramer for his well-informed and referenced post, because I would not have noticed the discrimination in this case otherwise. There is far more to say, but I've already rambled too long. Respectfully, Jason -- Jason M. Swails BioMaPS, Rutgers University Postdoctoral Researcher --20cf303e9fdcfd6aa604f2aee266 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Mo= n, Feb 17, 2014 at 11:01 PM, Jim Kress ccl_nospam^^kressworks.com <owner-chemistry{=}ccl.net>= wrote:

Sent to CCL by: "Jim Kress" [ccl_nospam(a)kressworks.com]
My last submission on this topic.

> The suggestion of organize your own conferences has been made several<= br> times.

Good.

> We are not talking about relatively small local conferences.

So what? =A0Have you heard of this thing call "The Internet?&quo= t; =A0What about
streaming video, webinars, web conferencing, MOOCs, etc.? =A0Technology is<= br> your friend in your efforts. =A0USE IT.

> The Congresses organized by IAQMS, along with the WATOC conferences, a= re

the most important international conferences in our field.<= br>

Until you WORK to MAKE BETTER ONES.

What about making the= existing ones better?

> We cannot start from scratch.

Winners always start from scratch. =A0Others use this "we can't do= it" as an
excuse. =A0How did the current conferences start? =A0Did they magically spr= ing
> from the heads of the (at that time) evil younger white men, like Athe= na
springing from the head of Zeus? =A0No! =A0They "started from scratch&= quot; and
worked very hard to build better conferences.

I tend to disagre= e. =A0Winners never start from scratch -- that's precisely why they'= ;re winners. =A0Things are refined over time by working out kinks, bugs, an= d inefficiencies; eliminating mistakes and streamlining processes. =A0Did t= he current meetings spring into being overnight? =A0No, they were refined a= nd evolved; hundreds of thousands (probably orders of magnitude more) of (w= o)man-hours went in to making these conferences what they are. =A0These mee= tings start as little conference meetings between a few people and grow slo= wly, evolving into the meetings that they are today. =A0It's unreasonab= le to think that the time and effort required to 'start over' will = be many orders of magnitude lower than the time and effort required to impl= ement the first ones (in fact, if you truly started FROM SCRATCH, it should= take precisely the same time and effort).

Even the most revolutionary = of scientific discoveries that cast off misconceptions and find new ways to= think about problems are, in most points of view, only a small tangent fro= m the wealth of knowledge and experience that preceded them. =A0Had Einstei= n 'started from scratch' (truly from scratch), he would never have = postulated General Relativity. =A0In the software community, recoding a pro= gram 'from scratch' is disastrous (why do you think Netscape has al= l but disappeared?) [http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html]. =A0To say that, if we want meetings devoid of descrimination, we must = create whole new meetings is to cripple the engine of progress. =A0Why shou= ld these women have to *stop* working on their science and instead devote t= heir time and money to design, start, advertise, and organize their own inc= lusive meeting? =A0There simply aren't enough hours in the day to do bo= th. =A0There are many examples where working to change an existing system i= s far better than creating a whole new one (like the bus boycott of the civ= il rights movement contrasted to minorities starting a bus system 'from= scratch' and the fight for universal suffrage as opposed to 'start= ing a new government from scratch where everybody can vote'). =A0While = some of these examples are extreme, the benefits of a similar strategy here= have strong parallels.

If people who TALK about making a difference are unwilling to WORK to make = a
difference, then they are being intellectually dishonest.
<= div>

The 3= OPs, Profs. Carter, Krylov, and Gagliardi, got where they were due to thei= r talent and determination, and they have worked (hard and successfully) to= make a difference in their field. =A0This statement attempts to tie propon= ents of this thread to lazy, entitled complainers and is, quite frankly, in= sulting and untrue.

The friend I mentioned in my prior note organized, FROM SCRATCH, an interna= l
professional organization to help women progress and be recognized FOR THEI= R
ACCOMPLISHMENTS within her Fortune 100 company.

=A0She started in the US.
That organization now spans the planet and has helped advance numerous
people (men and women).

> We have to reform and develop what we have.

No. =A0You can, and should, make better conferences.

Finis. =A0This is my last submission on this topic. =A0I have more importan= t
things to do.

These are good topics to discuss. =A0A common fal= lacious argument I see in your posts is that anyone that spends time discus= sing these things in a forum such as this is _not_ doing anything else and = is simply sitting back and complaining. =A0The "stop complaining and w= ork around it" attitude has been used for centuries to reinforce and s= upport discrimination, and all that's offered in return is the compleme= nt that "women are talented enough to do so" because "I'= ve seen one or two of those women for myself."

It is important to recognize= discrimination when it is so obvious, because only when we recognize a pro= blem can we work to correct it. =A0I thank the OPs for their letter, and es= pecially Chris Cramer for his well-informed and referenced post, because I = would not have noticed the discrimination in this case otherwise. =A0There = is far more to say, but I've already rambled too long.

Respectfully,

Jason

Jason M. Swails
BioMaPS,
Rutg= ers University
Postdoctoral Researcher

--20cf303e9fdcfd6aa604f2aee266-- From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Tue Feb 18 13:27:01 2014 From: "Sergio Manzetti sergio.manzetti,,outlook.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: FW: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49753-140218095904-1775-STdvdGzwO2XglisF9/FbVA!^!server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Sergio Manzetti Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_6c8670d2-3cf7-45fa-9022-53315ac74f32_" Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 15:58:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: Sergio Manzetti [sergio.manzetti%%outlook.com] --_6c8670d2-3cf7-45fa-9022-53315ac74f32_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A= =0A= =0A= Hysteria confirmed. > From: owner-chemistry-$-ccl.net > To: sergio.manzetti-$-gmx.com > Subject: CCL: ICQC shame > Date: Tue=2C 18 Feb 2014 02:32:29 -0500 >=20 >=20 > Sent to CCL by: "Yuanping Yi" [ypyi{:}iccas.ac.cn] > Before this event (so-called ICQC shame)=2C the organizing committee of I= CQC2015 had indeed been aware of gender inequality of the invited speakers = in the incomplete list and asked all the members of IAQMS (the official gov= erning body of ICQC) to recommend more speakers=2C especially female scienc= tists. > More details can be found in the following link: > https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A2=3Dmolecular-dynamics-news= =3Bf64a03fe.1402 >=20 > > "Kadir Diri dirikadir[a]gmail.com" wrote: > >=20 > > Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com] > > Dear Colleagues=2C > >=20 > > I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of th= e=20 > > many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the choice o= f=20 > > speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference. > >=20 > > I would always like to think of us=2C scientists=2C as some of the lead= ing=20 > > figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice of speakers= =20 > > for this conference was just a statistical abnormality. Even that would= =20 > > be unacceptable... > >=20 > > Professor Krylov's message follows below. > >=20 > > Best regards=2C > > Kadir > > --- > >=20 > >=20 > > Dear Colleague: > >=20 > > It happened again --- another major theoretical chemistry conference=20 > > features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting such=20 > > conferences 14 years ago and can't believe that 14 years later we are=20 > > still seeing such overt discrimination. This time it is the 15th=20 > > International Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC=2C=20 > > http://www.icqc2015.org) conducted under the auspices of International= =20 > > Academy of Quantum Molecular Science (http://www.iaqms.org)=2C which w= ill=20 > > be held in Beijing=2C China. As of 02/15/2014=2C the program features 2= 4=20 > > invited speakers and 5 chairs and honorary chairs and does not include = a=20 > > single woman. > >=20 > > Are there no women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in=20 > > Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc)=20 > > lists more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure track= =20 > > academic positions or equivalent positions in industry and other=20 > > research establishments pursuing research in theoretical and=20 > > computational chemistry=2C biochemistry=2C material science=2C as well = as=20 > > theoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many of these wome= n=20 > > are far more distinguished than many of the men being invited to speak= =20 > > at these conferences. > >=20 > > Feeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours by=20 > > signing this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this biased= =20 > > practice=2C which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it will take= =20 > > less than a minute). > >=20 > > Thank you for your for your support. > >=20 > > Prof. Emily Carter=2C Princeton University > > Prof. Laura Gagliardi=2C University of Minnesota > > Prof. Anna Krylov=2C University of Southern California > >=20 > > >=20 >=20 >=20 > -=3D This is automatically added to each message by the mailing script = =3D- > To recover the email address of the author of the message=2C please chang= e>=20>=20>=20 > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:=20>=20 > Before posting=2C check wait time at: http://www.ccl.net >=20 > Job: http://www.ccl.net/jobs=20>=20>=20 > If your mail bounces from CCL with 5.7.1 error=2C check:>=20>=20 >=20 = --_6c8670d2-3cf7-45fa-9022-53315ac74f32_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=0A= =0A= =0A=

Hysteria confirmed.

>=3B From: owner-chemist= ry-$-ccl.net
>=3B To: sergio.manzetti-$-gmx.com
>=3B Subject: CCL: IC= QC shame
>=3B Date: Tue=2C 18 Feb 2014 02:32:29 -0500
>=3B
&g= t=3B
>=3B Sent to CCL by: "Yuanping Yi" [ypyi{:}iccas.ac.cn]
>= =3B Before this event (so-called ICQC shame)=2C the organizing committee of= ICQC2015 had indeed been aware of gender inequality of the invited speaker= s in the incomplete list and asked all the members of IAQMS (the official g= overning body of ICQC) to recommend more speakers=2C especially female scie= nctists.
>=3B More details can be found in the following link:
>= =3B https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A2=3Dmolecular-dynamics-new= s=3Bf64a03fe.1402
>=3B
>=3B >=3B "Kadir Diri dirikadir[a]gmail= .com" wrote:
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri= [dirikadir ~ gmail.com]
>=3B >=3B Dear Colleagues=2C
>=3B >= =3B
>=3B >=3B I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna= Krylov -one of the
>=3B >=3B many outstanding women in theoretical= chemistry- regarding the choice of
>=3B >=3B speakers for the upco= ming ICQC conference.
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B I would always lik= e to think of us=2C scientists=2C as some of the leading
>=3B >=3B = figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice of speakers >=3B >=3B for this conference was just a statistical abnormality. Even= that would
>=3B >=3B be unacceptable...
>=3B >=3B
>= =3B >=3B Professor Krylov's message follows below.
>=3B >=3B
&= gt=3B >=3B Best regards=2C
>=3B >=3B Kadir
>=3B >=3B --->=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B Dear Colleague:
>= =3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B It happened again --- another major theoretic= al chemistry conference
>=3B >=3B features an all-male program. One= of us began boycotting such
>=3B >=3B conferences 14 years ago and= can't believe that 14 years later we are
>=3B >=3B still seeing su= ch overt discrimination. This time it is the 15th
>=3B >=3B Interna= tional Congress of Quantum Chemistry (ICQC=2C
>=3B >=3B http://www.= icqc2015.org) conducted under the auspices of International
>=3B >= =3B Academy of Quantum Molecular Science (http://www.iaqms.org)=2C which w= ill
>=3B >=3B be held in Beijing=2C China. As of 02/15/2014=2C the = program features 24
>=3B >=3B invited speakers and 5 chairs and hon= orary chairs and does not include a
>=3B >=3B single woman.
>= =3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B Are there no women in theoretical chemistry? H= ardly. The Women in
>=3B >=3B Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (= http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc)
>=3B >=3B lists more than 300 female= scientists holding tenured and tenure track
>=3B >=3B academic pos= itions or equivalent positions in industry and other
>=3B >=3B rese= arch establishments pursuing research in theoretical and
>=3B >=3B = computational chemistry=2C biochemistry=2C material science=2C as well as <= br>>=3B >=3B theoretical molecular/atomic physics and biophysics. Many = of these women
>=3B >=3B are far more distinguished than many of th= e men being invited to speak
>=3B >=3B at these conferences.
>= =3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B Feeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add= your voice to ours by
>=3B >=3B signing this open letter (http://c= hn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this biased
>=3B >=3B practice=2C which we= had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it will take
>=3B >=3B less = than a minute).
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B Thank you for your for y= our support.
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B Prof. Emily Carter=2C Princ= eton University
>=3B >=3B Prof. Laura Gagliardi=2C University of Min= nesota
>=3B >=3B Prof. Anna Krylov=2C University of Southern Califor= nia
>=3B >=3B
>=3B >=3B
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B
= >=3B -=3D This is automatically added to each message by the mailing scri= pt =3D-
>=3B To recover the email address of the author of the message= =2C please change
>=3B the strange characters on the top line to the -$-= sign. You can also
>=3B look up the X-Original-From: line in the mail= header.
>=3B
>=3B E-mail to subscribers: CHEMISTRY-$-ccl.net or u= se:
>=3B
>= =3B
>=3B>=3B
>=3B >=3B
>=3B http://www.ccl.net/chemist= ry/sub_unsub.shtml
>=3B
>=3B Before posting=2C check wait time a= t: http://www.ccl.net
>=3B
>=3B>=3B Conferences: http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/announcements/conferen= ces/
>=3B
>=3B Search Messages: http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/sea= rchccl/index.shtml
>=3B
>=3B If your mail bounces from CCL with = 5.7.1 error=2C check:
>=3B
&g= t=3B
>=3B>=3B
>=3B

= --_6c8670d2-3cf7-45fa-9022-53315ac74f32_-- From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Tue Feb 18 14:02:00 2014 From: "Michel Petitjean petitjean.chiral!A!gmail.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49754-140218130631-3866-gNptjfO0p7SLTJECOEeF/Q a server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Michel Petitjean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 19:06:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: Michel Petitjean [petitjean.chiral]=[gmail.com] Hi All, I just visited the ICQC 2015 site: http://www.icqc2015.org/ I did not find the name of the 24 invited speakers and of the 5 chairs. If there is no woman in this 29 names list, it is not good. But is it really too late to add names ? Even if the budget cannot permit to invite more people, adding chairwomen can be done at null cost. And why not a financial effort to invite at least a woman to speak ? The committee seems to be void: http://www.icqc2015.org/committees.html women can be included there at null cost. I found only one woman in the IAQMS Bureau: Odile Eisenstein http://www.iaqms.org/bureau.php (by the way, one of the best theoretical chemists in France). That's few. I hope that this example will not be isolated in the future. Solutions exist for those willing to find them. All my best, Michel Petitjean MTi, INSERM UMR-S 973, University Paris 7, 35 rue Helene Brion, 75205 Paris Cedex 13, France. Phone: +331 5727 8434; Fax: +331 5727 8372 E-mail: petitjean.chiral-#-gmail.com (preferred), michel.petitjean-#-univ-paris-diderot.fr http://petitjeanmichel.free.fr/itoweb.petitjean.html 2014-02-15 23:57 GMT+01:00 Kadir Diri dirikadir[a]gmail.com : > > Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com] > Dear Colleagues, > > I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of the > many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the choice of > speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference. > > I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the leading > figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice of speakers for > this conference was just a statistical abnormality. Even that would be > unacceptable... > > Professor Krylov's message follows below. > > Best regards, > Kadir > --- > > > Dear Colleague: > > It happened again --- another major theoretical chemistry conference > features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting such conferences 14 > years ago and can't believe that 14 years later we are still seeing such > overt discrimination. This time it is the 15th International Congress of > Quantum Chemistry (ICQC, http://www.icqc2015.org) conducted under the > auspices of International Academy of Quantum Molecular Science > (http://www.iaqms.org), which will be held in Beijing, China. As of > 02/15/2014, the program features 24 invited speakers and 5 chairs and > honorary chairs and does not include a single woman. > > Are there no women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in > Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc) lists > more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure track academic > positions or equivalent positions in industry and other research > establishments pursuing research in theoretical and computational chemistry, > biochemistry, material science, as well as theoretical molecular/atomic > physics and biophysics. Many of these women are far more distinguished than > many of the men being invited to speak at these conferences. > > Feeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours by signing > this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this biased practice, > which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it will take less than a > minute). > > Thank you for your for your support. > > Prof. Emily Carter, Princeton University > Prof. Laura Gagliardi, University of Minnesota > Prof. Anna Krylov, University of Southern California From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Tue Feb 18 16:51:01 2014 From: "John McKelvey jmmckel[]gmail.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: ICQC shame Message-Id: <-49755-140218163607-25434-FW+Ji33PbD/AVhBPuWJjvg__server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: John McKelvey Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013d19f8a6647504f2b50eba Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 16:35:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: John McKelvey [jmmckel%x%gmail.com] --089e013d19f8a6647504f2b50eba Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Please read carefully. It is stated that there are speaker openings. https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A2=molecular-dynamics-news;f64a03fe.1402 John On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Michel Petitjean petitjean.chiral!A! gmail.com wrote: > > Sent to CCL by: Michel Petitjean [petitjean.chiral]=[gmail.com] > Hi All, > > I just visited the ICQC 2015 site: > http://www.icqc2015.org/ > I did not find the name of the 24 invited speakers and of the 5 chairs. > If there is no woman in this 29 names list, it is not good. > But is it really too late to add names ? > Even if the budget cannot permit to invite more people, > adding chairwomen can be done at null cost. > And why not a financial effort to invite at least a woman to speak ? > The committee seems to be void: > http://www.icqc2015.org/committees.html > women can be included there at null cost. > I found only one woman in the IAQMS Bureau: Odile Eisenstein > http://www.iaqms.org/bureau.php > (by the way, one of the best theoretical chemists in France). > That's few. I hope that this example will not be isolated in the future. > Solutions exist for those willing to find them. > > All my best, > > Michel Petitjean > MTi, INSERM UMR-S 973, University Paris 7, > 35 rue Helene Brion, 75205 Paris Cedex 13, France. > Phone: +331 5727 8434; Fax: +331 5727 8372 > E-mail: petitjean.chiral,gmail.com (preferred), > michel.petitjean,univ-paris-diderot.fr > http://petitjeanmichel.free.fr/itoweb.petitjean.html > > > 2014-02-15 23:57 GMT+01:00 Kadir Diri dirikadir[a]gmail.com > : > > > > Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com] > > Dear Colleagues, > > > > I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of the > > many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the choice of > > speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference. > > > > I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the leading > > figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice of speakers > for > > this conference was just a statistical abnormality. Even that would be > > unacceptable... > > > > Professor Krylov's message follows below. > > > > Best regards, > > Kadir > > --- > > > > > > Dear Colleague: > > > > It happened again --- another major theoretical chemistry conference > > features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting such > conferences 14 > > years ago and can't believe that 14 years later we are still seeing such > > overt discrimination. This time it is the 15th International Congress of > > Quantum Chemistry (ICQC, http://www.icqc2015.org) conducted under the > > auspices of International Academy of Quantum Molecular Science > > (http://www.iaqms.org), which will be held in Beijing, China. As of > > 02/15/2014, the program features 24 invited speakers and 5 chairs and > > honorary chairs and does not include a single woman. > > > > Are there no women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in > > Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc) > lists > > more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure track academic > > positions or equivalent positions in industry and other research > > establishments pursuing research in theoretical and computational > chemistry, > > biochemistry, material science, as well as theoretical molecular/atomic > > physics and biophysics. Many of these women are far more distinguished > than > > many of the men being invited to speak at these conferences. > > > > Feeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours by > signing > > this open letter (http://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this biased practice, > > which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it will take less than a > > minute). > > > > Thank you for your for your support. > > > > Prof. Emily Carter, Princeton University > > Prof. Laura Gagliardi, University of Minnesota > > Prof. Anna Krylov, University of Southern California> > > -- John McKelvey 10819 Middleford Pl Ft Wayne, IN 46818 260-489-2160 jmmckel__gmail.com --089e013d19f8a6647504f2b50eba Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Please read carefully.=A0 It is stated that there are= speaker openings.
https://www= .jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A2=3Dmolecular-dynamics-news;f64a03fe.1402=

John

On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Michel Petitjean petitjean.chir= al!A!gmail.com <owner-chemistry__ccl= .net> wrote:

Sent to CCL by: Michel Petitjean [petitjean.chiral]=3D[gmail.com]
Hi All,

I just visited the ICQC 2015 site:
http://www.icqc2015.= org/
I did not find the name of the 24 invited speakers and of the 5 chairs.
If there is no woman in this 29 names list, it is not good.
But is it really too late to add names ?
Even if the budget cannot permit to invite more people,
adding chairwomen can be done at null cost.
And why not a financial effort to invite at least a woman to speak ?
The committee seems to be void:
http:= //www.icqc2015.org/committees.html
women can be included there at null cost.
I found only one woman in the IAQMS Bureau: Odile Eisenstein
http://www.ia= qms.org/bureau.php
(by the way, one of the best theoretical chemists in France).
That's few. I hope that this example will not be isolated in the future= .
Solutions exist for those willing to find them.

All my best,

Michel Petitjean
MTi, INSERM UMR-S 973, University Paris 7,
35 rue Helene Brion, 75205 Paris Cedex 13, France.
Phone: +331 572= 7 8434; Fax: +331 5727 8372
E-mail: petitjean.chiral,gma= il.com (preferred),
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 michel.petitjean,univ-paris-diderot.fr
http://petitjeanmichel.free.fr/itoweb.petitjean.html

2014-02-15 23:57 GMT+01:00 Kadir Diri dirikadir[a]gmail.com
<owner-chemistry,ccl.net>:

>
> Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir ~ gmail.com]
> Dear Colleagues,
>
> I am posting this message on behalf of professor Anna Krylov -one of t= he
> many outstanding women in theoretical chemistry- regarding the choice = of
> speakers for the upcoming ICQC conference.
>
> I would always like to think of us, scientists, as some of the leading=
> figures in the fight for gender equality. I wish the choice of speaker= s for
> this conference was just a statistical abnormality. Even that would be=
> unacceptable...
>
> Professor Krylov's message follows below.
>
> Best regards,
> Kadir
> ---
>
>
> Dear Colleague:
>
> It happened again --- =A0another major theoretical chemistry conferenc= e
> features an all-male program. One of us began boycotting such conferen= ces 14
> years ago and can't believe that 14 years later we are still seein= g such
> overt discrimination. This time it is the 15th International Congress = of
> Quantum Chemistry (ICQC, http://www.icqc2015.org) conducted under the
> auspices of International Academy of Quantum Molecular Science
> (http://www.iaqms.o= rg), which will be held in Beijing, China. As of
> 02/15/2014, the program features 24 invited speakers and 5 chairs and<= br> > honorary chairs and does not include a single woman.
>
> Are there no women in theoretical chemistry? Hardly. The Women in
> Theoretical Chemistry web-directory (http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc) lists
> more than 300 female scientists holding tenured and tenure track acade= mic
> positions or equivalent positions in industry and other research
> establishments pursuing research in theoretical and computational chem= istry,
> biochemistry, material science, as well as theoretical molecular/atomi= c
> physics and biophysics. Many of these women are far more distinguished= than
> many of the men being invited to speak at these conferences.
>
> Feeling as fed up and frustrated as we do? Add your voice to ours by s= igning
> this open letter (h= ttp://chn.ge/NQGKUc) denouncing this biased practice,
> which we had hoped would be obsolete long ago (it will take less than = a
> minute).
>
> Thank you for your for your support.
>
> Prof. Emily Carter, Princeton University
> Prof. Laura Gagliardi, University of Minnesota
> Prof. Anna Krylov, University of Southern California

-=3D This is automatically added to each message by the mailing script =3D-=
E-mail to subscribers: CHEMISTRY__ccl.n= et or use:
=A0 =A0 =A0 http://www.ccl.net/cgi-bin/ccl/send_ccl_message

E-mail to administrators: CHEM= ISTRY-REQUEST__ccl.net or use
=A0 =A0 =A0 http://www.ccl.net/cgi-bin/ccl/send_ccl_message

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
=A0 =A0 =A0 http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/sub_unsub.shtml

Before posting, check wait time at: http://www.ccl.net

Job: http://www.ccl.n= et/jobs
Conferences: http://server.ccl.net/chemistry/announcements/co= nferences/

Search Messages: http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/searchccl/index.shtml
=A0 =A0 =A0 h= ttp://www.ccl.net/spammers.txt

RTFI: http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/aboutccl/instructions/

--
John McKelv= ey
10819 Middleford Pl
Ft Wayne, IN 46818
260-489-2160
jmmckel__gmail.com

--089e013d19f8a6647504f2b50eba-- From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Tue Feb 18 18:17:00 2014 From: "Kadir Diri dirikadir ~~ gmail.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: Latest news on the ICQC speaker list story Message-Id: <-49756-140218180009-26266-ViYhs617jaNeakZnzoInLw[A]server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Kadir Diri Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 14:59:58 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: Kadir Diri [dirikadir]_[gmail.com] Dear Colleagues, Thank you very much for showing sensitivity on the problem with the speaker list for the upcoming ICQC meeting. I just want to update you on the latest status of this issue, as provided by our colleagues who drew our attention to it. I am very glad to see that the chair of the organizing committee has responded with an explanation, and that the IAQMS President, Prof. Josef Michl, has issued an official apology on the matter. You can find the latest story, including Prof. Michl's message, here: http://iopenshell.usc.edu/wtc/ICQC/icqc_story.html Again, thank you very much for all the support and constructive feedback. Sincerely, Kadir