Subject: Summary: X and modems

From: Seida Pamela R <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 14:19:38 EST

Here is the summary of information I received about X-windows sessions
over a phone line.  Opinions are mixed.  I haven't had a chance to 
implement any of these options yet, although I will probably try the 
MacX + SLIP configuration when I do.  Thanks to all who responded and I
apologize for the delay in getting the summary out (I'm working on my
dissertation - please forgive me ;-) ).

Pamela Seida
Bryn Mawr College

****************************

Does anyone know of a way to have an X-windows session over a 9600 baud 
modem from a Mac to a UNIX box of some variety?  Any help would be greatly
appreciated.  I'll summarize to the net if there is sufficient interest
(and I get any answers ;-)).

				Pamela Seida
				Chemistry Department
				Bryn Mawr College

****************
From: [email-masked] (Ron Shepard)
Subject: Re:  X and modems

If you have access to an ARA server on the network, then you can dial
in from the Mac, run MacX over MacTCP, and have MacTCP running over
AppleTalk.  You can also run Telnet simultaneously if you choose.

I have tried to do the same thing using SLIP (and CSLIP) but after a
few hours of tweaking, I could never get things to work right.  The
ARA approach worked first time, so I never got around to debugging the
SLIP connection.  There could well be some performance advantage to using
SLIP directly.  -Ron

****************
From: [email-masked] (Jeff Blaney)
Subject:  Re: X and modems

AppleTalk Remote Access software (available from Apple) will let you run
AppleTalk thru a modem; I use a 14.4 Kb modem.  In addition to standard
LocalTalk network features (file sharing, email, etc), you can also run
MacX (and probably other X-servers, although I haven't tried them).
X performance at 14.4 Kb is very sluggish; I only resort to this when
desperate.

Jeff Blaney
Chiron
[email-masked]

****************
From: Mr Andrew D Allen <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: X and modems

I have not had experience of this specific problem, but if you are attaching to
the UNIX box from the MAC then you would need to set the display environment
variable of the UNIX box to the Mac. The by invoking X commands from the unix
box, your results will be graphically displayed on the Mac.

Hope this helps,
Andy.

****************
From: [email-masked] (Edward Wolpert)
Subject: X and modems

All I can say is DON'T DO IT!  You will spend alot of cash, and hate what you
get.  Trust me.  :(  

I have a 9600 v42bis mmp5 modem.  ($180 mac warehouse)  I have a free dial-up
slip connection to the university I work at, and who gave my home computer a
IP address.  (This is absouletly needed to connect to an X-client, since they
are tcp/ip dependent.  You can also use ppp, but slip is more universal, and
I can't find a good ppp modual for the MacTCP program.)
	There are many programs to use to connect.  I get the slip mac
program, and mactcp from using VersaTerm Link (about $200 with university
discount).  This provides a pop mailer, newsreader, a Great terminal
emulation program, and links to a gopher.  (Actually, for mail I use LeeMail,
and smtp mail program on the shareware market... about $20)  
	Mac-X will allow you to accecpt X-windows... with programs like
Sybyl, or other graphic programs, make sure your monitor is sun-quality.
Mac-X is about $250 or more.  If you want a UNIX/X-window enviorment, you can
use aux, but this changes alot about your mac, and not very mac-like ($495)
MachTen is much better than aux... it runs as an application, so you can have
system 7.1 and unix.  Good multitasking enviorment.  ($200)  With X-windows,
add another $200 though.  The UNIX programs may come with a slip or ppp
program, so check them out first.
	Here is the problem... you will endup spending at least $500.
X-windows is nice, but on normal mac monitors, the dot resolution is bigger
than most X-servers, so the window on a mac is usually much bigger, and
clumsy.  Also, X is very tcp/ip active, meaning everytime you move the mouse,
it sends info across the slip connection.  My 9600 (et al) modem, with
compression and slip/compression, will overall connect at 38.7Kbaud.  The
lines are dirty (Voice, not data ready) so error correction is a _must_ and
slows down the line.  UNIX is a 32bit operating system, X is also 32bit.
Every movement is send 32bits over the slip.  God forbid you also get mail at
the same time.  It's neat at first, having X at home, but after a while, I
just get fed-up and head back to the university to do real work.  
	Having a home tcp/ip connection is wonderful, and versaterm link,
leemail, and turbogopher (+finger and talk from the sumex-aim archive) is
better than anything I can ask for, and I suggest it to anyone.  I routinely
login to my unix accounts to do work from home.  But it is impossible to use
X at such a slow speed.  Try it out if you can, I may just be picky.

	Virtually,
	Edward Wolpert

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****************
From: [email-masked]

Yes it is possible to use X-windows on a Macintosh computer as a server
and a UNIX computer as a client over a serial line. (Yes the Mac
is a server, not a client...)

However, you do need the proper hardware and software to do this.

===================================

Computing center.                                       Home.

AppleTalk Remote Access server                          ARA client
Macintosh with modem--------------Telephone line--------Macintosh with modem
    |
 LocalTalk net
    |
    |
 FastPath
 bridge------Ethernet-----UNIX computer

==================================

Your Macintosh runs MacX (which includes MacTCP) and AppleTalk Remote
Access client software.

The computing center has Macintosh and modem set up as an AppleTalk Remote
Access server. You also have to have a FastPath bridge (or equivalent)
somewhere on the computing center network to properly encapsulate the IP
traffic before it is passed over the ARA link. Set up MacTCP so it gets its
IP address from the FastPath bridge.

I just tried to use X-windows over an ARA link and it worked fine.
xman updated its window in about 3 seconds over a 14400 baud ARA link.

-Anders

PS There are probably other ways to do this (eg SLIP).

-- 
 Anders Sundin                   e-mail: [email-masked]
 Organic Chemistry 2                     [email-masked]
 Lund University, P.O. Box 124   voice:  +46 46 104130
 S-22100 Lund, Sweden            fax:    +46 46 108209

****************
From: Song Liu <[email-masked]>

You can try using MacSlip  and Mac-X, I tried MacSLIP and Telnet, it
worked for us.

Song Liu
Chemistry,
UC, Irvine

****************
From: [email-masked] (Ron Shepard)

>Thanks for your suggestion.  I have what may be a dumb question...what
>is an ARA server?

ARA stands for AppleTalk Remote Access.  It allows you to connect a
remote mac to a network.  The remote mac can connect either to an
existing Mac on the network (i.e. if you have two macs, one in an office
and one at home) or you can connect to an ARA server.  An ARA server is a
box connected to one or more modems and to a localtalk network that
allows remote Macs to call in and establish connections.

Once connected you can mount appleshare devices, print to network
printers, etc.  Basically anything that a mac connected directly to
the network can do, the remote mac can do over the phone line.  This
includes running Telnet and MacX over the network (provided there is
an ethernet-localtalk gateway somewhere on the localtalk network).

Hope this helps. -Ron

****************
From: (Dr.) Dave Winkler <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: X and modems

I believe you simply have to implement SLIP (serial line internet protocol) on 
your Iris and use SLIP on your Mac.  I don't know how bad the performance would 
be but would like to find out as I want to do this too.  Does anyone know 
whether Mac-X supports a SLIP connection?

Cheers,

Dave
__________________________________________________________________________

   Dr. David A. Winkler                        Voice: 61-3-542-2244      
   Principal Research Scientist                Fax:   61-3-543-8160      
   CSIRO Division of Chemicals and Polymers
   Private Bag 10       
   Clayton, Australia.

****************
From: Lyle Wiedeman <[email-masked]>
Status: OR

The only way we have achieved that here is to run MacX on the Mac,
and use SLIP over the serial line.  Since I was not personally
involved in setting it up, I wouldn't be able to tell you how to
assemble the pieces, however :-(

	Lyle Wiedeman                 Office of Academic Computing
	[email-masked]              Univ. Calif. Irvine
	[email-masked]           Irvine, CA  92717
    	(714) 856-8718	    	      FAX (714) 725-2069

****************
From: [email-masked]

>I believe you simply have to implement SLIP (serial line internet protocol) on 
>your Iris and use SLIP on your Mac.  I don't know how bad the performance would 
>be but would like to find out as I want to do this too.  Does anyone know 
>whether Mac-X supports a SLIP connection?

MacX does not have to know about SLIP. You only have to indicate
a SLIP connection in MacTCP. There is a free (?) Macintosh SLIP from
InterCon. Archie found the latest version at

Host ftp.wu-wien.ac.at    (137.208.3.4)
Last updated 19:59 14 Sep 1993

 Location: /incoming
  FILE    -rw-r-----  351360 bytes  11:07  2 Aug 1993  InterSLIP1.0fc3.sit.bin

I don't have SLIP on any UNIX computer so I have not tried it.

-Anders

-- 
 Anders Sundin                   e-mail: [email-masked]
 Organic Chemistry 2                     [email-masked]
 Lund University, P.O. Box 124   voice:  +46 46 104130
 S-22100 Lund, Sweden            fax:    +46 46 108209

****************
From: [email-masked]

I know very little about macs.  However, there is a public domain UNIX for
the i386/486 chips called linux which, I believe, has ben ported to the
mac.  It uses x11 as it's windowing environment, and individuals at our
institution have used it to run remote X-sessions across ZyXEL 16.8 kbaud
modems.  However, sending X codes across serial lines is a painfully slow
process.  A minimal linux/X installation is also 50+ Mbytes.  Good luck,
though.

Mark Anderson
Queen's University
Kingston, Ontario, Canada

****************
From: Jim Gano/Chemistry <[email-masked]>

  Exodus, an X-Window emulator for the Mac will run over a modem.
The problem is not running over the modem but rather modem speed
sufficient to get usable results.  2400 baud is definitely not sufficient.
9600 might be.  We have people running a Tektronix emulator over a 9600
baud line to do things like the Cambridge database.  They find it
usable.

Jim Gano
Department of Chemistry
University of Toledo
Toledo, Ohio 43606
(419)537-2104