Subject: Summary for Law & Chemistry

From: Gregory Rechtsteiner <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 94 13:04:19 PDT

Hello:

I must apologize for the delay in the summary.
I DID send it when I sent that first message,
but I forgo a subject line so it was rejected by the
server.  I am very sorry.

The summary follows this text.  I deleted most of the header
garbage to save space.  I hope that it is of help to those
that are/were interested.

[start summary]

To all who inquired:

Here is a condensed (sort of) version of my replies.
Sorry if your letter is included.
Best wishes, 

Gregory

Start:

I know of at least 5 lawyers who entered law with their chemical degrees in
place. Write me off- list at [email-masked] if you want details of
thier current careers.

CHL

From: "Larry Wier" <[email-masked]>
Organization:  Saint Bonaventure University
To: Gregory Rechtsteiner <[email-masked]>
Date:          Thu, 9 Jun 1994 15:42:51 EST
Subject:       Re: A Request
Priority: normal
X-Mailer:     PMail v3.0 (R1a)
Status: OR

Greg,
About three years ago one of our best students had the choice of law
school or chem grad school and choose the former. My impression is
that a need exists for lawyers with technical degrees/backgrounds.
In fact you do not need a law degree to be a patent examiner (rather
than a patent attorney). However, a bigger question is what do you
want to do? which would you enjoy more?  Possibly try to obtain some
experience in a law office or whatever to help you make
an informed choice (summer internships etc).  Good luck.
Larry

> ==============================
Dr Larry Wier
Dept of Chemistry
St Bonaventure University
St Bonaventure, N.Y.  14778
(716)375-2116
INTERNET:[email-masked]
==============================

Date: Thu, 09 Jun 1994 14:56:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Rick Loncharich <[email-masked]>
Subject: CCL:A Request.
To: [email-masked]
Message-Id: <[email-masked]>
X-Vms-To: MCDEV1::IN%"[email-masked]"
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Status: OR

Patent law relating to the chemical synthesis of compounds and design
of new compounds is one aspect of law most often mentioned.  One must 
have a knowledge of, for example, chirality and prove that two isomers
are different and each is therefore patentable.  A friend of mine, once
a computational chemist, is now a patent lawyer with a law firm in the
DC area.  

Rick

From: LONCHARICH RICHARD J          (MCVAX0::RX82788)

To:   FOREIGN TRANSPORT ADDRESSEE   (MCDEV1::IN%"[email-masked]")

Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 16:24:13 -0400
From: [email-masked] (Brad Isbister)
Message-Id: <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: CCL:A Request.
Status: OR

Gregory,

My roommate in college got a dual degree in Chemistry and Psychology.  He's just graduated from Hofstra Law School and is headed into the Patent Law division of a large NY firm.  As I understand it, his particualr interest has to do with the copyright and

 patenting of computer programs.  I'm sure that he could have gone into a more chemical field for patents or perhaps as in-house counsel for a chemical firm.  Every business needs a lawyer, so there's always a way to combine the law with other interests.

-Brad
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Brad Isbister					Duke University
[email-masked]				Department of Chemistry
Computational/Biophysical chemistry		E.J. Toone group

Date: Thu, 09 Jun 1994 17:07:16 EDT
From: [email-masked]
To: [email-masked]
Message-Id: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Careers in patent law
Status: OR

Greg:

I am the Chair of the Careers Committee of the Chemical Information
Division of the American Chemical Society.  I am also a career
consultant to the ACS.  There is a career consultant who is a patent
attorney with a doctorate in chemistry.  If you are a member of the
ACS, you can request a career consultation.  Please let me know
if you are interested in a consultation.

Bruce Slutsky
New Jersey Institute of Technology
[email-masked]
201-596-8498

Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 16:12:19 CDT
From: [email-masked] (Konstantin Kostov)
Message-Id: <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Patent Law
Status: OR

Hi,

I think you would have very good oppurtunities. There are patent law
firms that hire people only with technical degrees. 
There is competition from Ph.D's changing careers though, so maybe
you should get a master's degree at first.

take care
Konstantin

Date: Thu, 09 Jun 1994 14:21:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: [email-masked] (Adrian Wong)
Subject: chemistry and patent law
To: [email-masked]

Hi Greg,
        my sister works for the Government Patent Office in
the Organic Chemistry Division (this is back in Australia).
She graduated with a B.Sc. with a major in Chemistry.

In that organisation, a formal training in law is not required,
however, it is highly desirable for getting promoted and
also for moving into the private sector (where all the money
is made!). Patent law, from what my sister tells me, is a
*very* lucrative business for lawyers. The Patent Office
permits and encourages its officers to go to Law School 
part-time.

It's really the best of both worlds - you get a Law degree
but, at the same time, you get paid for doing something in the
industry. It's the contacts you make and your knowledge of
the inner workings of the Government side of things, that
really give your career a headstart.

(Warning: Patent examining and verification is extremely
tedious)

Don't know the set up of the US Patent Office, but, check it
out!

From: ARTHUR HOAG <[email-masked]>
Received: by wilbur.cac.psu.edu id <[email-masked]>; Thu, 9 Jun 1994 17:02:34 -0400
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 17:02:34 -0400
Message-Id: <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: lawschool
Status: OR

Hello greg,
I am a grad student at penn state in chemistry.  I am finishing a masters
in computational physical organic chemistry.  I was in the ph.d. program
but had long been interested in law, so I decided to go to law school.  I
am starting at NYU this fall.  I was grateful to get into such a good 
school, and beleive that part of the reason I was accepted was because
of my science background.  As you might guess there are many areas of
law where science is central, and these are beyond the obvious patent areas.
I simply decided to go, took the lsat, applied, and got accepted.  some
people start with chem companies and have them put them through school, but
you lose freedom this way.  Recently on the the back cover of JACS there was
an add placed by a new york law firm asking for ph.d's or ph.d candidates, to
go to law school to become patent lawyers.  this firm was willing to pay 
55,000 a year plus your tuition.  the catch is that you had to go to law
school at night and work for them during the day. this may not sound so bad
but I beleive none of the good law schools have night programs so you may
be shit out of luck if you didnt want to work for this firm forever.  Plus
if you didnt like the firm, you are bound to them for some period of time
regardless.

I dont know how helpful this is, but I do know there are a lot of 
opportunities for chemists as lawyers.

I would appreciate it if you would relay to me any interesting responses
you receive.

Good Luck in your decisions,

Arthur Hoag
[email-masked]
ph 814-863-7980

From: stanley <[email-masked]>
Subject:      Re: A Request
X-To:         CHEMICAL INFORMATION SOURCES DISCUSSION LIST
              <[email-masked]>
To: Multiple recipients of list CHMINF-L <[email-masked]>
Status: OR

     Damn straight, dude!  There are some really gnarly salaries to be had in
     the area of patent law!

     Most, but certainly not all, have advanced degrees and/or industrial
     experience in chemistry or engineering -- even biology. Many also have
     been patent "agents" before passing the Bar.  Some are employed by law
     firms specializing in patent law; many are employed by companies as
     internal counsel in their efforts to protect their "intellectual
     property", i.e. patenting, trademarks & copyright issues.

     Interesting combination of technical and legal activities and the
     combination of backgrounds makes these guys in high demand!

     Suggest you find some (I just saw the other response on the list) and
     talk to them.  I'd bet you'll find they really like the prestige & $
     despite the hard work to get there (and the long hours they face every
     day)

Dale Stanley
Avery Dennison
Avery Research Center
2900 Bradley Street
Pasadena CA 91107-1599
(818) 398-2579
FAX (818) 398-2553
Internet:  [email-masked]

From: DORIS BLOCH 202-260-5457 <[email-masked]>
Subject: Chemistry and Law
To: [email-masked]
Message-Id: <[email-masked]>
X-Envelope-To: [email-masked]

          EPA and other regulatory agencies here "inside the Beltway" 
          certainly have a need for lawyers with chemistry and scientific 
          backgrounds.  We have a number of attorneys here in EPA who are 
          heavily involved in writing regulation and developing policy.  My 
          guess is that those with the technical background are often more 
          effective and certainly understand the issues better.
          
          A number of our high powered Chemistry Ph.D's have been lured 
          away to corporate law firms where their corporate clients need 
          their assistance in maneuvering through the regulatory maze.  At 
          least one of these folks is now in law school part time to 
          acquire that degree.  
          
          I know that the chemical associations and environmental groups 
          also hire lawyers with scientific degrees.  
          
          Last, but not least, you have already heard about the patent law 
          area; another big field in Washington and in also in many large 
          corporations.
          
          Supply and demand are in your favor.  I will see if any of my 
          lawyer buddies here have any additional comments or advice of 
          merit.

Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 10:14:33 -0400
Message-Id: <[email-masked]>
From: [email-masked] (Fran Voci, TIS, 566 Bldg., Midland, 6-9444)
To: [email-masked]
Subject: lawyers with chemistry backgrounds

Greg,
I see that there is a very high demand for lawyers with chemistry and
engineering training.  I am not sure if an advanced degree in chemistry
is needed to go along with the law degree.  There would certainly be
opportunities in patent law, environmental law, and some areas of 
litigation law.
Fran Voci
Technical Information Services
The Dow Chemical Company

From: Gislason Jason <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Reply:Law
In-Reply-To: In reply to your message of THU 09 JUN 1994 14:22:02 CDT

The application of a chemistry degree to law is a very profitable
endevor.  I am a student at South Dakota State University studying
chemistry.  However, my undergraduate degree is in Aerospace Engineering
from Auburn University.  I had a professotr at Auburn, a Doctor Cochran,
who has a Doctorate of Jurice Prudance and a Phd in Aerospace Enginnerin
g
He made a significant income as a consultant.  Most lawyers are
liberal arts majors and have no interest in science what so ever.
Patent law is very scientifically intensive and profitable.  The
mojor part of the profit is in the investment of small upward coming
companies started through a lawyers expert tutelage.  Good luck
on your endevors.  Some day I hope to get a JD to go along with
my hopefully pending Phd.

Sioncerely,
?Jason Gislason
[email-masked]

ps.  Please send me any further information that you recieve on
this subject.  Thanks.

Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 13:22:12 -0400
From: Michael A. Peterson <[email-masked]>
Message-Id: <[email-masked]>
To: Gregory Rechtsteiner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re:  CCL:A Request.

Gregory
	I, too, have thought of patent law as a career.  I am a graduate
student in chem and will be finishing within the next year (hopefully!).
Could you send me a summary of your replies?  I have a friend who is starting
law school this fall, and she is intending to go into patent law.  She just
received her BS in chemistry.  She said she was told that, with a degree in
chemistry, she would be hired very quickly (and very highly paid--$70k+) when
she finished law school.  If that info is accurate, it's rather enticing, eh?

Michael
--
Michael A. Peterson				[email-masked]
Dept. of Chemistry				[email-masked]
Indiana U Purdue U Indianapolis
402 N. Blackford Street				(317) 274-9828  (Voice)
Indianapolis, IN  46202				(317) 274-4701  ( FAX )

Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 10:41:07 -0400
From: Bob Zellmer <[email-masked]>
Message-Id: <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: CCL:A Request.
Status: OR

Gregory:

A few years ago, a cousin of mine, who is a lawyer in California, told me that
I should have stopped at my M.S. and gone to law school and speciallized in
patent law.  She seemed to think I would be able to write my own ticket (i.e.
make big bucks) with a degree in chemistry plus the law degree.  I don't
know if this is still true or not, but I do know of a couple of graduate
students who recently went this route.  I think with the current job market
I would definitely check into it if I were in your position.

Bob Zellmer
[email-masked]

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gregory A. Rechtsteiner					   Pepperdine University
Research Assistant						 24255 PCH # 572
Fax: 310.456.4314 (work) 				       Malibu, CA. 90263
[email-masked] / [email-masked]
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