From chemistry-request@server.ccl.net Tue Jan 30 08:20:44 2001 Received: from schrodinger.com (root@thermidore.schrodinger.com [192.156.98.99]) by server.ccl.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0UDKhw21278 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 08:20:43 -0500 Received: from tandoori.schrodinger.com (root@tandoori.schrodinger.com [216.216.237.99]) by schrodinger.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA00840 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 05:20:42 -0800 Received: from sally.schrodinger.com (shenkin@sally.schrodinger.com [216.216.237.92]) by tandoori.schrodinger.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA23972 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 08:20:38 -0500 Received: from localhost (shenkin@localhost) by sally.schrodinger.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA29809 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 08:21:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: sally.schrodinger.com: shenkin owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 08:21:49 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Shenkin To: chemistry@ccl.net Subject: Re: CCL:An article worth reading In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi, On Mon, 29 Jan 2001, Renxiao Wang wrote: > .... I read a paper before, in which the author cited > about 100 references. 60 or 70 of them are the previous work of his own > and here is how he cited them (something like that): "we have also applied > this method to other systems [20-80], ...". Ooops. > > So what do you say? I say, "See my previous postings in CCL for further comments." :-), -P. From chemistry-request@server.ccl.net Tue Jan 30 11:49:44 2001 Received: from vax2.concordia.ca (SYSTEM@Vax2.Concordia.CA [132.205.1.100]) by server.ccl.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0UGniw22360 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:49:44 -0500 Received: from vax2.concordia.ca by vax2.concordia.ca (PMDF V5.2-33 #36969) id <01JZIMUXA9UC00EUZF@vax2.concordia.ca> for chemistry@ccl.net; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:51:45 EDT Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:51:45 -0400 (EDT) From: srhughes@vax2.concordia.ca Subject: BBSE corrections To: CCL Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello CCLers, Are there circumstances under which it is possible to have an increase in energy after employing a counterpoise BSSE correction? Over the course of my calculations, I am consistently obtaining higher energies after corrections are applied. The system I am studying includes an ECP (SDD large core) and a Pople basis set (6-31+G(2d,p). Is it possible that the use of a mixed basis set may affect the correction? I have not seen this anywhere and, instinctively, I would assume that as basis sets are added to a system, the resultant energy should be lowered. Thank you for your time. Sean Hughes Centre for Research in Molecular Modeling (CERMM) Dept. Chemistry and Biochemistry Concordia University 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. West Montreal, Quebec Canada H3G 1M8 Tel: (514)-848-4260 Fax: (514)-848-2868 From chemistry-request@server.ccl.net Tue Jan 30 09:29:14 2001 Received: from mailhost.msi.com (fire.msi.com [146.202.0.242]) by server.ccl.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0UETDw21650 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:29:13 -0500 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by mailhost.msi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/970903.SGI.AUTOCF) id GAA15076 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 06:31:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from unknown(146.202.45.153) by mailhost.msi.com via smap (V2.0) id xmaa15065; Tue, 30 Jan 01 06:31:22 -0800 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010126101345.00a743e0@sparky2.msi.com> X-Sender: jnauss@sparky2.msi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 05:14:00 -0500 To: chemistry@ccl.net From: Jeff Nauss Subject: 2001.03.20-23 MSI Customer Training Workshops in York, UK Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Molecular Simulations Inc. will be holding a pair of 2-day workshops involving Cerius2 at the University of York, York, UK. On 20-21 March, the "Introduction to Cerius2 for Life Sciences Workshop" will be offered. This course provides an overview of molecular modeling techniques for life sciences applications using Cerius2. The workshop will focus on basic skills for use of the interface and will explore various modules in the areas of rational-drug design, structure-based drug design, and combinatorial chemistry. Prior modeling experience is not assumed making this course a great place to learn molecular modeling with Cerius2. On 22-23 March, the "Combinatorial Chemistry" workshop will be offered. This workshop is an introduction to library design and analysis in combinatorial techniques using the Cerius2 interface. Attendees should have a basic understanding of QSAR theory and either extensive experience with Cerius2 or completion of the "Introduction to Cerius2 for Life Sciences Workshop". Fees for each 2-day course are GBP 700 commercial, GBP 350 government, and GBP 280 academic. However, register for both courses and receive a 25% discount for the second course. Further detailed information about this and other MSI training workshops, as well as on-line course registration, can be found at MSI's website (http://www.msi.com/about/events/training). Please do not hesitate to contact us should you have any questions. Thank you very much. Jeffrey L. Nauss MSI Customer Training Programs -- Jeffrey L. Nauss, PhD Phone: (858) 799-5555 Customer Training Programs Fax: (858) 458-0136 Molecular Simulations Inc. E-mail: jnauss@msi.com 9685 Scranton Road http://www.msi.com/about/events/training San Diego, CA 92121-3752 From chemistry-request@server.ccl.net Tue Jan 30 09:29:14 2001 Received: from mailhost.msi.com (fire.msi.com [146.202.0.242]) by server.ccl.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0UETDw21649 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:29:13 -0500 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by mailhost.msi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/970903.SGI.AUTOCF) id GAA15072 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 06:31:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from unknown(146.202.45.153) by mailhost.msi.com via smap (V2.0) id xma015065; Tue, 30 Jan 01 06:31:22 -0800 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010122143115.00a83840@sparky2.msi.com> X-Sender: jnauss@sparky2.msi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 04:31:00 -0500 To: chemistry@ccl.net From: Jeff Nauss Subject: 01.03.27 MSI Customer Training Workshops on Catalyst Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The week before the 221st American Chemical Society National meeting, Molecular Simulations Inc. will be holding a pair of 2-day workshops at the San Diego Supercomputer Center, San Diego, CA. These workshops will involve the Catalyst user interface. On March 27-28, the "Introduction to Catalyst Workshop" will be presented. This workshop is intended to introduce customers to pharmacophore generation and to the Catalyst user interface. No prior experience with molecular modeling is needed. The workshop begins with the basics of the Catalyst interface and builds to simple pharmacophore generation, selection of training sets, and three-dimensional database searching. The "Advanced Pharmacophore and 3D Database Searching Techniques Workshop" will be presented on March 29-30. This workshop is for advanced users who are interested in how to best exploit the most useful features within Catalyst. Methods used within Catalyst for automatic hypothesis generation and manual hypothesis construction will be discussed. Optimization of training sets and database searching will be covered as well. Successful strategies and techniques to take advantage of these methods will also be presented These workshops are to provide attendees with the Catalyst-eye view of the structure-activity world that is necessary to best exploit its most useful features. Lectures presenting the methodologies and examples of their application to solve real-world problems will be followed by hands-on/discussion periods during which attendees can work though tutorials or discuss their own work with experts from MSI. Attendees should possess knowledge of basic UNIX commands and have a basic understanding of QSAR theory. Attendees for the advanced workshop should have either experience with Catalyst or have completed the "Introduction to Catalyst Workshop." Fees for the 2-day course are $1000 commercial, $500 government, and $400 academic. Register for both workshops and receive a 25% discount on the second workshop. Further detailed information about this and other MSI training workshops, as well as on-line course registration, can be found at MSI's website (http://www.msi.com/about/events/training). Please do not hesitate to contact us should you have any questions. Thank you very much. Jeffrey L. Nauss 858-799-5555 Chris Arzt 858-799-5340 -- Jeffrey L. Nauss, PhD Phone: (858) 799-5555 Customer Training Programs Fax: (858) 458-0136 Molecular Simulations Inc. E-mail: jnauss@msi.com 9685 Scranton Road http://www.msi.com/about/events/training San Diego, CA 92121-3752 From chemistry-request@server.ccl.net Tue Jan 30 13:37:18 2001 Received: from Mercury.acs.unt.edu (mercury.acs.unt.edu [129.120.220.1]) by server.ccl.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0UIbIw23331 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:37:18 -0500 Received: from jove.acs.unt.edu (10759@jove.acs.unt.edu [129.120.220.41]) by Mercury.acs.unt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA06779 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:37:15 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (tdp0006@localhost) by jove.acs.unt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17006 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:37:13 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:37:12 -0600 (CST) From: TREVOR D POWER To: chemistry@ccl.net Subject: Re: CCL:BBSE corrections In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sean, To respond to your first question: It really depends where you are on the potential energy surface when you apply the conterpoise correction method. Note that the minimum obtained from a geometry optimization (where BSSE correction is necessary) results from the unphysical interaction between orbitals (occupied and unoccupied) of monomer A and B. This unphysical interaction of orbitals places the optimized geometry such that monomers A and B are closer than they should be. If this equilibrium point is where you apply the counterpoise correction method, you will find that the BSSE corrected energies are higher than they were before the correction was applied. Hope this helps, David Power Department of Chemistry University of North Texas NT Station, Box 305070 Denton, Texas 76203-5070 tdp0006@unt.edu On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 srhughes@vax2.concordia.ca wrote: > Hello CCLers, > > Are there circumstances under which it is possible to have an increase in > energy after employing a counterpoise BSSE correction? Over the course > of my calculations, I am consistently obtaining higher energies after > corrections are applied. The system I am studying includes an ECP (SDD > large core) and a Pople basis set (6-31+G(2d,p). Is it possible that the > use of a mixed basis set may affect the correction? I have not seen this > anywhere and, instinctively, I would assume that as basis sets are added > to a system, the resultant energy should be lowered. > > Thank you for your time. > > Sean Hughes > Centre for Research in Molecular Modeling (CERMM) > Dept. Chemistry and Biochemistry > Concordia University > 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. West > Montreal, Quebec > Canada > H3G 1M8 > Tel: (514)-848-4260 > Fax: (514)-848-2868 > > > -= This is automatically added to each message by mailing script =- > CHEMISTRY@ccl.net -- To Everybody | CHEMISTRY-REQUEST@ccl.net -- To Admins > MAILSERV@ccl.net -- HELP CHEMISTRY or HELP SEARCH > CHEMISTRY-SEARCH@ccl.net -- archive search | Gopher: gopher.ccl.net 70 > Ftp: ftp.ccl.net | WWW: http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/ | Jan: jkl@ccl.net > > > > > > From chemistry-request@server.ccl.net Tue Jan 30 18:40:52 2001 Received: from cascara.UVic.CA (root@cascara.uvic.ca [142.104.5.28]) by server.ccl.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0UNepw25383 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:40:51 -0500 Received: from unix4.uvic.ca (unix4.uvic.ca [142.104.5.112]) by cascara.UVic.CA (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f0UNeeA55658; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:40:41 -0800 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:40:36 -0800 (PST) From: Roy Jensen To: Subject: Transition State Optimization Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII All I am attempting a transition state optimization on G98W A.9, currently on HOCN. Using a multitude of methods, basis sets, and starting geometries, I fail to get a negative eigenvalue after the first step. The exact error: -- Wrong number of Negative eigenvalues: Desired= 1 Actual= 0 Has anyone experienced this problem? An input file is copied below. Roy Jensen =========================== #P MP2/6-31G opt(TS) nosymm Transition state optimization for HOCN. 0 1 H O 1 R1 C 2 R2 1 A1 N 2 R3 3 A2 1 D1 R1=0.97 R2=1.20 R3=1.20 A1=115. A2=125. D1=179.999 From chemistry-request@server.ccl.net Tue Jan 30 18:49:35 2001 Received: from cascara.UVic.CA (root@cascara.uvic.ca [142.104.5.28]) by server.ccl.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0UNnZw25476 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:49:35 -0500 Received: from unix4.uvic.ca (unix4.uvic.ca [142.104.5.112]) by cascara.UVic.CA (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f0UNnYA90408; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:49:34 -0800 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:49:33 -0800 (PST) From: Roy Jensen To: Subject: SLATERDET keyword in Gaussian 98 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I am trying to find a singlet-triplet crossing. Has anyone sucessfully used the SLATERDET keyword to accomplish this? Are there any other ways to estimate the crossing? Thanks, Roy Jensen From chemistry-request@server.ccl.net Tue Jan 30 19:09:03 2001 Received: from qtp.ufl.edu (zwart.qtp.ufl.edu [128.227.89.3]) by server.ccl.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0V092w25631 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:09:02 -0500 Received: from pc1 (pc1 [128.227.192.187]) by qtp.ufl.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA28106; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:09:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <0a3701c08b1a$896ff400$bbc0e380@qtp.ufl.edu> From: "Stefan Fau" To: "Roy Jensen" Cc: "CCL - all" References: Subject: Re: CCL:Transition State Optimization Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:12:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Hi Roy, the error message means that the approximate hessian used in the geometry/TS optimization has no negative eigenvalue, i.e. you are far from the TS. If you do not calculate force constants [opt(calcfc)] or read them from the checkpointfile [opt(readfc)], a rougher hessian will be provided from some empirical rules and/or a force field. That does not necessarily work well for transition states. Try opt(calcfc,ts) or opt(calchffc,ts). Opt=ts is the best method if your starting geometry is relatively close to the TS geometry. If you have only a vague idea of the TS geometry, opt(qst3) works well. You have to specify the geometries of reactant, product and TS-guess with the same sequence of atoms. This method is good for getting close to the TS. It may be slower than opt(ts) once you are close to the TS. For details with the keywords, look at http://www.gaussian.com/techinfo.htm Stefan ______________________________________________________________________ Dr. Stefan Fau | fau@qtp.ufl.edu Quantum Theory Project | (352) 392-6714 University of Florida Gainesville, FL 32611-8435 From chemistry-request@server.ccl.net Tue Jan 30 19:32:08 2001 Received: from Mercury.acs.unt.edu (mercury.acs.unt.edu [129.120.220.1]) by server.ccl.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0V0W7w25831 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:32:07 -0500 Received: from jove.acs.unt.edu (10759@jove.acs.unt.edu [129.120.220.41]) by Mercury.acs.unt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA12920 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:32:05 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (tdp0006@localhost) by jove.acs.unt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA25193 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:32:05 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:32:04 -0600 (CST) From: TREVOR D POWER To: chemistry@ccl.net Subject: Re: CCL:Transition State Optimization In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Roy, The easiest thing to do is specify opt=(NoEigenTest,TS) in the route card. I have been locating transition states for over 5 years and I have NEVER found one with just opt=TS. QST3 has a lot of bugs. For instance, several times I have set this up and the job actually converges but the program will just iterate to a new optimization cycle. You really have to pay attention to the output or the job may never seem to terminate properly. Cheers, David Power Department of Chemistry University of North Texas NT Station, Box 305070 Denton, Texas 76203-5070 tdp0006@unt.edu On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, Roy Jensen wrote: > All > > I am attempting a transition state optimization on G98W A.9, currently on > HOCN. Using a multitude of methods, basis sets, and starting geometries, > I fail to get a negative eigenvalue after the first step. The exact error: > -- Wrong number of Negative eigenvalues: Desired= 1 Actual= 0 > > Has anyone experienced this problem? > An input file is copied below. > > Roy Jensen > > > =========================== > #P MP2/6-31G opt(TS) nosymm > > Transition state optimization for HOCN. > > 0 1 > H > O 1 R1 > C 2 R2 1 A1 > N 2 R3 3 A2 1 D1 > > R1=0.97 > R2=1.20 > R3=1.20 > A1=115. > A2=125. > D1=179.999 > > > > -= This is automatically added to each message by mailing script =- > CHEMISTRY@ccl.net -- To Everybody | CHEMISTRY-REQUEST@ccl.net -- To Admins > MAILSERV@ccl.net -- HELP CHEMISTRY or HELP SEARCH > CHEMISTRY-SEARCH@ccl.net -- archive search | Gopher: gopher.ccl.net 70 > Ftp: ftp.ccl.net | WWW: http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/ | Jan: jkl@ccl.net > > > > > > From chemistry-request@server.ccl.net Tue Jan 30 19:28:30 2001 Received: from mr.usu.edu (mr.usu.edu [129.123.1.3]) by server.ccl.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0V0SUw25800 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:28:30 -0500 Received: from tapaskar (tapaskar.chem.usu.edu [129.123.3.37]) by mr.usu.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id 931C01D2D1; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 17:28:31 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <00d101c08b1c$94d36140$25037b81@tapaskar> From: "Tapas Kar" To: "Roy Jensen" , References: Subject: Re: CCL:Transition State Optimization Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 17:27:23 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Use NoEigenTest keyword. _______________________________________ Tapas Kar, Ph.D Department of Chemistry & Biochemistry Utah State University 0300 Old Main Hill Logan, UT 84322-0300 Voice: 435-797-7230 Fax: 435-797-3390 Email: tapaskar@cc.usu.edu tapas@risky3.chem.usu.edu ----------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Jensen" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 4:40 PM Subject: CCL:Transition State Optimization > All > > I am attempting a transition state optimization on G98W A.9, currently on > HOCN. Using a multitude of methods, basis sets, and starting geometries, > I fail to get a negative eigenvalue after the first step. The exact error: > -- Wrong number of Negative eigenvalues: Desired= 1 Actual= 0 > > Has anyone experienced this problem? > An input file is copied below. > > Roy Jensen > > > =========================== > #P MP2/6-31G opt(TS) nosymm > > Transition state optimization for HOCN. > > 0 1 > H > O 1 R1 > C 2 R2 1 A1 > N 2 R3 3 A2 1 D1 > > R1=0.97 > R2=1.20 > R3=1.20 > A1=115. > A2=125. > D1=179.999 > > > > -= This is automatically added to each message by mailing script =- > CHEMISTRY@ccl.net -- To Everybody | CHEMISTRY-REQUEST@ccl.net -- To Admins > MAILSERV@ccl.net -- HELP CHEMISTRY or HELP SEARCH > CHEMISTRY-SEARCH@ccl.net -- archive search | Gopher: gopher.ccl.net 70 > Ftp: ftp.ccl.net | WWW: http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/ | Jan: jkl@ccl.net > > > > > From chemistry-request@server.ccl.net Tue Jan 30 22:08:01 2001 Received: from mallard.duc.auburn.edu (mallard.duc.auburn.edu [131.204.2.11]) by server.ccl.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0V381w27150 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:08:01 -0500 Received: from localhost (kwonohy@localhost) by mallard.duc.auburn.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.7.2) with SMTP id VAA17503; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:08:01 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: mallard.duc.auburn.edu: kwonohy owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:08:01 -0600 (CST) From: Ohyun Kwon X-Sender: kwonohy@mallard To: Roy Jensen cc: chemistry@ccl.net Subject: Re: CCL:Transition State Optimization In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dear Roy; Try to use option like ; # opt=(ts,calcfc,noeigentest) "noeigentest" indicate program to skip the test of number of negative eigenvalue. Good luck. Tommy Kwon On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, Roy Jensen wrote: > All > > I am attempting a transition state optimization on G98W A.9, currently on > HOCN. Using a multitude of methods, basis sets, and starting geometries, > I fail to get a negative eigenvalue after the first step. The exact error: > -- Wrong number of Negative eigenvalues: Desired= 1 Actual= 0 > > Has anyone experienced this problem? > An input file is copied below. > > Roy Jensen > > > =========================== > #P MP2/6-31G opt(TS) nosymm > > Transition state optimization for HOCN. > > 0 1 > H > O 1 R1 > C 2 R2 1 A1 > N 2 R3 3 A2 1 D1 > > R1=0.97 > R2=1.20 > R3=1.20 > A1=115. > A2=125. > D1=179.999 > > > > -= This is automatically added to each message by mailing script =- > CHEMISTRY@ccl.net -- To Everybody | CHEMISTRY-REQUEST@ccl.net -- To Admins > MAILSERV@ccl.net -- HELP CHEMISTRY or HELP SEARCH > CHEMISTRY-SEARCH@ccl.net -- archive search | Gopher: gopher.ccl.net 70 > Ftp: ftp.ccl.net | WWW: http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/ | Jan: jkl@ccl.net > > > > > >