From mbu!neel@vigyan.ernet.in  Fri Aug 27 07:44:07 1993
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Subject: qustion regarding molecular dynamics simulation


Q. How can integration of Newtons eq. of motion can be justified in the 
absence of real solvent molecule while simulating a protein or a dna
motion    motion ? What about friction offered by solvent ? 


From arne@mango.mef.ki.se  Fri Aug 27 13:37:12 1993
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Date: Fri, 27 Aug 93 13:37:12 GMT
From: arne@mango.mef.ki.se (Arne Elofsson)
Message-Id: <9308271337.AA05328@mango.mef.ki.se>
To: CHEMISTRY@ccl.net
Subject: RE: MD



MD simulation in absence of water ....

It has in several studies been shown that
To fully exclude water not is very good.                
I have a paper i J.Mol.Biol (inpress) but 
there have been several earlier papers also.
                     
The main conclusion is (I think most people agree)
Do include water, the solvent effect can be reproduced
rather well with specific solvent potentials but
they seem to be slower than to include specific
waters. (Chris Sander had a paper in last J.M.B  
with something that sounded very fast.)

I do not think that it is neccesary to include a large
box of water a few layers of water should be enough.
An excellent paper is :       
Guenot & Kollman J. Comp.Chem.14(3) 295-311

your
arne

From roberto@demilo.boston.sgi.com  Fri Aug 27 03:59:10 1993
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Message-Id: <9308271159.AA26411@demilo.boston.sgi.com>
To: "Gregory L. Durst - DowElanco Discovery Research" <GDURST@elinet1.dowelanco.com>
Cc: chemistry@ccl.net
Subject: Re: IRIX 5.0.1 & MOPAC 6.0?? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 26 Aug 93 12:45:35 EDT."
             <930826124535.21a2@ELINET1.DOWELANCO.COM> 
Reply-To: roberto@boston.sgi.com
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 93 07:59:10 EDT
From: Roberto Gomperts <roberto@demilo.boston.sgi.com>


Your message dated: Thu, 26 Aug 93 12:45:35 EDT
|>  Dear netters,
|>  
|>  We recently upgraded one of our SGI servers to an Onyx running IRIX 5.0.1
|>  and have seen a problem running MOPAC 6.0 with ESP options compiled in. 
|>  Now when we run a MOPAC job, the machine is unable to execute any
|>  other programs. Things just won't run! Never seen anything like this before.
|>  Errors appear in the console window stating things like:
|>  
|>  NOTICE: dupreg - temporarily insufficient memory to allocate virtual swap space,
|>   process buttonfly [1592]
|>  
|>  	OR
|>  
|>  NOTICE: growreg - temporarily insufficient memory to expand region, process
|>  sybyl [1596]
|>  
|>  This does *not* happen on our other SGI server running IRIX 4.0.5. and if
|>  we use a copy of MOPAC 6.0 without the ESP modules compiled in, there is 
|>  no problem on the new Onyx...I'm now very suspicious that the problem 
|>  has something to do with the new OS and the ESP modules in MOPAC 6.0. 
|>  Anybody seen anything similar?
|>  Thanks in advance for any help!
|>  Greg Durst

Hi Greg,

I am responding to you via the net because the answer will benefit other people 
seeing the same problem on the new OS for Challenge/Onyx systems.

The origin of the problem has to do with new ways of allocating swap space. There 
is a new feature (for SGI): virtual swap space that will allow you to, on the fly,
correct this situation.

Become superuser (root) and issue the following sequence of commands:
touch /usr/tmp/vswap
swap -a -p2 -v2000000 /usr/tmp/vswap

Please read the man page of swap to get more info and what to do to ensure that 
the virtual swap space is there after a reboot.

The inappropriate default setting of the machine should be corrected in the next 
release of the OS.

I hope this helps and apologies for the inconvenience.



				-- Roberto


						Roberto Gomperts
						roberto@sgi.com
						phone: (508) 562 4800
						Fax:   (508) 562 4755

"Gracias a la vida,
que me ha dado tanto ..."
        Violeta Parra





From ravishan@tulip.wcc.wesleyan.edu  Fri Aug 27 04:44:20 1993
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From: G. Ravishanker <ravishan@swan.wesleyan.edu>
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To: mbu!neel@vigyan.ernet.in
Cc: chemistry@ccl.net
In-Reply-To: <9308271544.AA23277@iisc.ernet.in> (message from swan.wesleyan.edu!vigyan.ernet.in!mbu!neel on Fri, 27 Aug 93 11:44:07 EDT)
Subject: Re: qustion regarding molecular dynamics simulation




>>   Q. How can integration of Newtons eq. of motion can be justified in the 
>>   absence of real solvent molecule while simulating a protein or a dna
>>   motion    motion ? What about friction offered by solvent ? 

	In the absence of solvent, the model you are studying is usually
the system "in vacuo". This is usually done to check if any unusual
artifacts exist in the force field and used to be the only way one could
study systems in the early days, due to the lack of computational
resources. This therefore has very limited "physical" significance, such
as correlation to experimental data etc. (I am talking about large
biomolecular systems here)

	Solvent can be modelled in several different ways. The extremes
being explicit solvents (TIP4P, SPC are some of the examples) and a simple
continum model using a constant dielectric in the modulation of
electrostatic interaction between the solute atoms. The expense of
computation varies according to the model and is pretty obvious. When
these models are used to solve Newton's equations of motion using the
forces on atoms, it is called Molecular Dynamics.

	The type of model you are interested in, where you want to model
friction of the solvent, you use a different set of equations typically.
These are the stochastic Langevin equations, where in addition to the
forces, a stochastic term to represent the solute-solvent collisions and a
frictional term to express the drag due to solvent appear in the equation.

	Please refer to an excellent review by W.F. van Gunsteren and H.J.C.
Berendsen on all these issues (Angew. Chem. Int. Ed. Engl. v. 29,
992-1023(1990) as well as Allen and Tildesley's book.

Ravi





From shenkin@still3.chem.columbia.edu  Fri Aug 27 04:38:12 1993
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Date: Fri, 27 Aug 93 08:38:12 -0400
From: shenkin@still3.chem.columbia.edu (Peter Shenkin)
Message-Id: <9308271238.AA14894@still3.chem.columbia.edu>
To: "Gregory L. Durst - DowElanco Discovery Research"
    <GDURST@elinet1.dowelanco.com>,
        chemistry@ccl.net
Subject: Re:  IRIX 5.0.1 & MOPAC 6.0??
Cc: GDURST@elinet1.dowelanco.com


> From: "Gregory L. Durst - DowElanco Discovery Research" <GDURST@elinet1.dowelanco.com>

> We recently upgraded one of our SGI servers to an Onyx running IRIX 5.0.1
> and have seen a problem running MOPAC 6.0 with ESP options compiled in. 
> Now when we run a MOPAC job, the machine is unable to execute any
> other programs. Things just won't run! Never seen anything like this before.
> Errors appear in the console window stating things like:
> 
> NOTICE: dupreg - temporarily insufficient memory to allocate virtual swap space,
>  process buttonfly [1592]
> 
> 	OR
> 
> NOTICE: growreg - temporarily insufficient memory to expand region, process 
> sybyl [1596]
> 
> This does *not* happen on our other SGI server running IRIX 4.0.5...

This is probably a consequence of the way SGI allocates memory under
IRIX 5.0.1.  The differences between IRIX 3.x.x and 4.x.x in this regard
were discussed in the comp. chem. list a few weeks ago.  IRIX 5.x.x
changes the paradigm again.  I don't know the 5.x.x paradigm as well
as the other two, but my understanding is as follows:

	3.x.x: On process startup (or at malloc time, for processes
	  that use malloc), reserve as much swap+RAM as the total
	  size of the program.  This guarantees that any memory allocated
	  will be available if/when used, but is wasteful for 
	  Fortran programs that allocate array space for large
	  data sets that are rarely encountered.

	4.x.x: Reserve swap+RAM for a memory location when an attempt is 
	  made to access it -- not when memory is declared or malloc'ed 
	  by the process.  This makes for higher efficiency of resource 
	  use, but is non-deterministic: a program can be killed in mid-
	  execution if some process (not necessarily itself!) all of a 
	  sudden tries to access array elements that the system can't 
	  find physical resources for.  The OS then has to kill some 
	  process, and usually selects the largest -- which on occasion 
	  may be the X-server :-(.

	5.x.x: Reinstate the 3.x.x behavior, but allow the system
	  administrator to declare an arbitrary amount of "virtual
	  swap space.  If this amount is zero, then we get exactly
	  the 3.x.x behavior.  If it is high, then we get some 
	  approximation to the 4.x.x behavior.  (4.x.x has essentially
	  infinite virtual swap space.)

Though the precise nature of your difficulty is not clear to me from 
the wording of your error messages, it may be that what you need 
to do is allocate more virtual swap space.  See the manual entry 
on "swap -v" for a description and a brief discussion of this.
The man page suggests that you "SEE ALSO" swapctl(2).  My manual
doesn't have an entry for this, but the name would suggest that
it allows a process to control the allocation of (virtual?) swap
space for itself.

It is also possible that you simply don't have enough "real"
swap space on your Onyx to run these presumably very large
programs.  You can see how much swap space you have on either 
your Onyx or your 4.x.x system by issuing the command "swap -l".
Certainly your real swap space should be at least as large on
the Onyx as on your 4.x.x system.  If it isn't, increase it.
If it is, add virtual swap space.  If you've been happy with
the indeterminate allocation method on the 4.x.x server, you
ought to add an effectively infinite amount of swap space to
the 5.x.x Onyx.

	-P.
************************f*u*cn*rd*ths*u*cn*gt*a*gd*jb************************
Peter S. Shenkin, Box 768 Havemeyer Hall, Dept. of Chemistry, Columbia Univ.,
New York, NY  10027;  shenkin@still3.chem.columbia.edu;  (212) 854-5143
********************** Wagner, Beame, Screvane in '93! ********************** 


From DSMITH@uoft02.utoledo.edu  Fri Aug 27 05:01:04 1993
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Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 10:01:04 -0500 (EST)
From: "DR. DOUGLAS A. SMITH, UNIVERSITY OF TOLEDO" <DSMITH@uoft02.utoledo.edu>
Subject: second post: JT vs. doublet instability
To: chemistry@ccl.net, mmodinfo@uoft02.utoledo.edu, hyperchem@autodesk.com
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A while back I posted this to the net; suprisingly and disappointingly, I
received absolutely no replies.  So, I would like to try again.


In a recent paper (J. Org. Chem. 1993, 58, 6) we reported on the geomietric
distortion of the triplet nitrenium ion derived from azepine (C6H6N+), 
although we could not distinguish between Hartree-Fock doublet instability
and vibronic coupling-induced pseudo Jahn Teller distortion as the cause.
In trying to sort this out, I have several questions to put to the readership
of this mailing list.

1.	In other azaaromatic systems such as pyridine and pyrimidine, 
vibronic coupling of low lying triplet states is invoked as the reason
for geometric distortions.  These distortions are out-of-plane deformations,
as opposed to the in-plane distortion we observed in the azepine system.  Is
this because the two former systems are six-membered rings while azepine
is a seven atom heterocycle?

2.	Are there any examples of vibronic coupling-induced geometric 
distortions for other homoaromatic systems, e.g. tropylium?  If so, are
these in-plane or out-of-plane distortions?

3.	Are there any examples of vibronic coupling-induced geometric 
distortions for three-membered ring aromatic systems, e.g. cyclopropenyl
cation?  This system would necessarily be planar, so any distortion should
be (IMHO) in-plane.

4.	In the absence of experimental data, how does one computationally
determine the existence of vibronic coupling?  From my reading of the 
literature (e.g. Buma, et al., J. Am. Chem. Soc. 1992, 114, 9544) I cannot
see how coupling is unambiguously determined.  In the paper cited, the 
authors calculated several low lying excited triplet states and examined
the normal mode frequencies,then they correlated the direction of the 
geometric distortions in each state.  This somehow led them to the conclusion
that vibronic coupling was occuring.  (I am only an organic chemist, their
arguments just don't make enough sense to me.)  Can someone help explain
this to me?

5.	Furthermore, the explanation by these authors based on electronic
structure ("We argue that an azabenzene in an npi* state may well be
susceptible to out-of-plane distortions because the pi-electron system in 
this kind of molecules [sic] becomes in first approximation a 7-pi-electron
system and thus is no longer aromatic.") seems to me to be just handwaving
of the type an organic chemist would use.  The explanation seems empirically
valid but does not really explain anything, especially in light of our 
results for the azepine system.  On the other hand, if this explanation 
really is valid, then perhaps our azepine results are due to HF doublet 
instability rather than vibronic coupling.  Help!

6.	These authors also use energetic arguments that don't seem to me to
"prove" vibronic coupling.  For example, "The excitation to the 3A2(npi*)
state... results in a large out-of-plane distortion of the C2-H7 fragment
with a large stabilization energy, indicating that the vibronic coupling 
between the 3A2(npi*) and 3B2(pipi*) states is considerably stronger than
the vibronic coupling between the 3B1(npi*) and 3A1(pipi*) states [where
the stabilization energy was small]."  This sounds like circular reasoning
to me, i.e. vibronic coupling exists because there is a large stabilization
energy due to vibronic coupling.  Or am I missing the point?

	On a related topic, another question.  When doing a CASSCF calculation
on a triplet state of any molecule, is it absolutely necessary to include
both unpaired electrons and both singly occupied orbitals (and their 
corresponding antibonding orbitals)?  In particular, when calculating the
triplet state of a nitrenium ion, should the two unpaired electrons formally
on the nitrogen be tightly coupled or correlated?

	Please direct replies to the net, in order to foster discussion and
further insights.

Doug

Douglas A. Smith
Assistant Professor of Chemistry
  and of Medicinal and Biological Chemistry
The University of Toledo
Toledo, OH  43606-3390

voice    419-537-2116
fax      419-537-4033
email    dsmith@uoft02.utoledo.edu

From msjones@whale.st.usm.edu  Sat Aug 28 36:10:37 1993
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From: msjones@whale.st.usm.edu (Michael Sean Jones)
Message-Id: <9308271554.AA08599@whale.st.usm.edu>
Subject: Grad Schools
To: CHEMISTRY@ccl.net (chemlist)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 10:54:37 +22304916 (CDT)
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Netters,
  I am interested in applying to graduate school in the discipline of
computational chemistry.  I am very eager to work on biological
macromolecules.  I am requesting a list of as many grad schools as 
possible that offer this type of degree.  I would also be interested
in a list of companies that are actively engaged in this sort of  
research.  I am interested in making some sort of contacts in industry 
in order to more appropriately direct my research.
  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

Michael S. Jones
Univesity of Southern Mississippi
Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry

Internet: msjones@whale.st.usm.edu
   or     msjones@wave.st.usm.edu


From DFAC@ANDESCOL.UNIANDES.EDU.CO  Fri Aug 27 13:29:42 1993
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Date: Fri, 27 Aug 93 11:49:06 COL
From: Alex Jaimes <DFAC%ANDESCOL.BITNET@phem3.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Heat Pumps
To: chemistry@ccl.net
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Hi....


I'm looking for information on Heat Pumps - the types that exist and
their many applications.

If you know of any application (even if it's an ~obvious~ one) or know
of anyone who knows about it or has info on this topic, I would greatly
appreciate it if you'd let me know.

Any info (including places where I can look) is welcome.

I'm not subscribed to the list, so please answer me directly.

Thanks a lot,

Alex Jaimes
Los Andes University - Bogota, Colombia S.A.
DFAC (Computer Aided Manufacturing and Design Research Group)
e-mail: DFAC@ANDESCOL

From steve@onsager.chem.columbia.edu  Fri Aug 27 10:18:10 1993
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Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 14:18:10 -0400
From: steve@onsager.chem.columbia.edu (Steve Stuart)
Message-Id: <9308271818.AA16819@onsager.chem.columbia.edu>
To: chemistry@ccl.net
Subject: Re: MD


On a note related to the solvent MD question:

Does anyone know of any work that has been done on simulating proteins
using a *polarizable* water model?

-Steve Stuart
steve@onsager.chem.columbia.edu

From hogue@calumet.den.mmc.com Fri Aug 27 11:11:28 1993
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From: hogue@calumet.den.mmc.com (Pat Hogue 1-2183)
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To: chemistry@ccl.net
Subject: Heavy Fermions
Status: RO

Has anyone successfully modeled the heavy fermion or Hondo effect?

From stoutepf@chemsci1.es.dupont.com  Fri Aug 27 10:41:44 1993
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From: stoutepf@chemsci1.es.dupont.com (Pieter Stouten)
Subject: MD with water ...


On Fri, 27 Aug 93 13:37, Arne Elofsson <arne@mango.mef.ki.se> wrote:

>the solvent effect can be reproduced
>rather well with specific solvent potentials but
>they seem to be slower than to include specific
>waters. (Chris Sander had a paper in last J.M.B  
>with something that sounded very fast.)
>
I am not completely sure, but somehow doubt that it was published in
J.M.B. :-). Also, effective solvation can be much faster than using
explicit water. Our method is only 20-50% (20% in PRESTO, 50% in
GROMOS) slower than VACUUM simulations.

The reference is: P.F.W. Stouten, C. Froemmel, H. Nakamura & C. Sander,
"An Effective Solvation Term Based on Atomic Occupancies for Use in
Protein Simulations," Mol. Simulation 10 (1993) 97-120.

Cheers, Pieter.

 
Pieter Stouten, Senior Research Scientist    ||
Computer Aided Drug Design Group             ||
The Du Pont Merck Pharmaceutical Company     ||    Adventures get spoiled
P.O. Box 80353, Wilmington, DE 19880-0353    ||   by being reduced to data
Phone:   +1 (302) 695 3515                   ||             --
Fax:     +1 (302) 695 2813                   ||        Poul Anderson
ARA/Fax: +1 (302) 695 4324                   ||
E-mail:  stoutepf@chemsci1.es.dupont.com     ||
E-mail:  stoutepf@lldmpc.dnet.dupont.com     ||


From ryszard@MSI.COM  Fri Aug 27 13:17:01 1993
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From: ryszard@msi.com (Ryszard Czerminski X 285)
Message-Id: <9308272117.AA13848@hogan.MSI.COM>
To: DSMITH@uoft02.utoledo.edu, chemistry@ccl.net, hyperchem@autodesk.com,
        mmodinfo@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Subject: Re:  second post: JT vs. doublet instability



Doug:

Probably this reference will not answer your questions
directly, but you might find it usefull...

A. Sobolewski, R. Czerminski
"The Potential Energy Surfaces and the Radiationless Dynamics of
Excited States of Benzene and Pyridazine"
Chem. Phys. 130, 123 (1989)

Ryszard Czerminski
Molecular Simulations
16 New England Executive Park,
Burlington, MA 01803-5297
phone: (617)229-8875 x 217
fax: (617)229-9899
e-mail: ryszard@msi.com

From raman@bioc01.uthscsa.edu  Fri Aug 27 14:35:40 1993
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From: raman@bioc01.uthscsa.edu (C.S.RAMAN)
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Subject: Accessible Surface Areas... 
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Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 19:35:40 -0500 (CDT)
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Dear netters:

Is anyone aware of an algorithm that can compute polar and non-polar
solvent accessible surface areas for a PARTIAL MOLECULAR SURFACE, i.e.
a region of approximately 1000 square angstroms around a particular
residue in a protein?

I am not familiar with a program that does it and do know that both
ACCESS and the MSP suite do not implement this.

Before I write my own code to do the same, I was wondering if someone
had already done this?

I would appreciate a quick response on this matter.

Cheers
-raman
-- 
C.S.Raman                                 raman@bioc01.uthscsa.edu - Internet
UNIX Programming & Administration         70412.2354@compuserve.com - CIS
SPARC & SGI Systems                       raman@hermes.chpc.utexas.edu - CHPC
Department of Biochemistry                c.raman@launchpad.unc.edu
UTHSCSA       
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         If a man's wit be wandering, let him study the Mathematics
                                                            -Francis Bacon   
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