From Leif.Laaksonen@pobox.csc.fi Wed Mar 16 01:41:44 1994 Received: from pobox.csc.fi for Leif.Laaksonen@pobox.csc.fi by www.ccl.net (8.6.4/930601.1506) id BAA27596; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 01:07:48 -0500 Received: from [128.214.46.163] (laaksone.csc.fi) by pobox.csc.fi with SMTP id AA25764 (5.65c8+/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Wed, 16 Mar 1994 08:07:45 +0200 Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 08:07:45 +0200 Message-Id: <199403160607.AA25764@pobox.csc.fi> X-Sender: laaksone@finsun.csc.fi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: chemistry@ccl.net From: Leif.Laaksonen@csc.fi Subject: Legal issues about stuff put under Mosaic Dear Netters, We have been running a WWW server here for some time in biochemistry, computational chemistry and mathematics. I have been fascinated by the possibilities Mosaic has. To make the information setup as complete and good as possible I have also put up some of my publications. The question is now. Do I have the right to make the text and figures from my publications publicly available through Mosaic? When a manuscript gets accepted we usually have to sign the paper where we give the rights to publish the manuscript to a publisher. Could somebody explain me which rights we are giving away to the publisher? Are the publishers very strict about this issue? For me it sounds very strange if we have agreed to give away the "words" and information in our publications. Or are we just prohibited to use the layout and setting in which the manuscript gets published in a journal? I guess some of these questions would have got an answer by reading one of the agreements I have signed but I wanted to have some discussion about this issue. In principle (I believe) it is also forbidden in Finland to include people's names into services like Mosaic. This should fall under the regulations of building data bases containing personal information and making them publicly available. Is there anybody who has been encountering legal problems and issues connected with these, by all means splended, services like WWW and Gopher? After all this is not of course chemistry but I know there are very many skilled people out there and I need your opinion. Please answer me directly if you think this subject would reach the flame level. Thank you all for this service. Regards, -leif laaksonen ------------------------------------------------------------------- Leif Laaksonen | Center for Scientific Computing | Phone: 358 0 4572378 P.O. Box 405 | Telefax: 358 0 4572302 FIN-02101 Espoo | Voice Mail: 358 486257407 FINLAND | Mail: Leif.Laaksonen@csc.fi --------URL: http://www.csc.fi/lul/leif/leif.laaksonen.html-------- New opinions are always suspected, and usually opposed, without any other reason but because they are not already common. John Locke ------------------------------------------------------------------- From Daniel.Vercauteren@fundp.ac.be Wed Mar 16 04:42:03 1994 Received: from hermes.fundp.ac.be for Daniel.Vercauteren@fundp.ac.be by www.ccl.net (8.6.4/930601.1506) id EAA28211; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 04:19:43 -0500 Received: from ravel.scf.fundp.ac.be by hermes.fundp.ac.be; id AA10252; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 10:20:24 +0100 Received: from mac-scf7 by ravel.scf.fundp.ac.be (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA18012; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 10:19:33 +0100 Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 10:19:33 +0100 Message-Id: <9403160919.AA18012@ravel.scf.fundp.ac.be> X-Sender: vercau@ravel.scf.fundp.ac.be Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: CHEMISTRY@ccl.net From: Daniel.Vercauteren@fundp.ac.be (Daniel Vercauteren) Subject: DFT Courses Programme Gouvernemental en Technologie de l'Information Formation Postgraduate: Calcul de Puissance en Chimie et Physique Quantiques Educative Session: Large Scale Computation for Quantum Physics and Chemistry Cours Avances - Auditoire CH2, Departement de Chimie, 2, rue Grafe, B-5000 Namur Methodes de la fonctionnelle de la densite en chimie quantique - Theorie et applications Prof. Henry CHERMETTE - Universite Claude Bernard, Lyon Lundi, 21 mars 1994 - 16h00-18h00 1. Theorie de la fonctionnelle de la densite (DFT) : du modele de Thomas-Fermi aux theoremes de Hohenberg-Kohn. 2. Operateurs et matrices densite. Mardi, 22 mars 1994 - 16h00-18h00 3. Resolution des equations DFT par la methode Kohn-Sham. 4. Fonctionnelles locales et approximations LSD (Local Spin Density), Corrections SIC (Self-Interaction Corrections). Mercredi, 23 mars 1994 - 16h00-18h00 5. Etats de transition de Slater, theoreme de Janak. Signification des valeurs propres. 6. Fonctionnelles "non-locales": GGA (Generalized Gradient Approximation) et autres. Jeudi, 24 mars 1994 - 16h00-18h00 7. Principales methodes numeriques utilisees en chimie quantique. 8. Potentiel chimique, electronegativite, durete et mollesse (HSAB) et indice de reactivite de Fukui en DFT. Vendredi, 25 mars 1994 - 16h00-18h00 9.10. Applications a des systemes moleculaires, agregats, solides : calculs de proprietes, exemples et comparaisons. FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT Dr. M.C. ANDRE or Prof. D.P. VERCAUTEREN Facultes Universitaires N.D. de la Paix 61, rue de Bruxelles B - 5000 NAMUR (Belgium) Internet : mcandre@scf.fundp.ac.be or vercau@scf.fundp.ac.be Tel : 32 81 724553 or 32 81 724534, Fax : 32 81 724530 ========================================================================= | Prof. Daniel P. Vercautere | tel +32 (81) 72 45 34 | | Departement de Chimie | fax +32 (81) 72 45 30 | | F.U.N.D.P. | e-mail Daniel.Vercauteren@fundp.ac.be | | Rue de Bruxelles, 61 | | | B-5000 Namur Belgium | | ========================================================================= From h.rzepa@ic.ac.uk Wed Mar 16 04:50:58 1994 Received: from punch.ic.ac.uk for h.rzepa@ic.ac.uk by www.ccl.net (8.6.4/930601.1506) id DAA28117; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 03:53:56 -0500 Received: from sg1.cc.ic.ac.uk by punch.ic.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <07784-0@punch.ic.ac.uk>; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 08:49:50 +0000 Received: from macb.ch by cscmgb.cc.ic.ac.uk (920330.SGI/4.0) id AA09145; Wed, 16 Mar 94 08:52:28 GMT Message-Id: <9403160852.AA09145@cscmgb.cc.ic.ac.uk> X-Sender: rzepa@sg1.cc.ic.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 08:53:01 +0000 To: CHEMISTRY@ccl.net From: h.rzepa@ic.ac.uk (Henry Rzepa) (Henry Rzepa) Subject: Re: CCL:Legal issues about stuff put under Mosaic -leif laaksonen writes: > >We have been running a WWW server here for some time in biochemistry, >computational chemistry and mathematics. I have been fascinated by the >possibilities Mosaic has. To make the information setup as complete >and good as possible I have also put up some of my publications. > >The question is now. Do I have the right to make the text and figures >from my publications publicly available through Mosaic? When a manuscript gets >accepted we usually have to sign the paper where we give the rights to >publish the manuscript to a publisher. > >Could somebody explain me which rights we are giving away to the publisher? >Are the publishers very strict about this issue? For me it sounds very >strange if we have agreed to give away the "words" and information in our >publications. Or are we just prohibited to use the layout and setting in which >the manuscript gets published in a journal? The short answer is that every paper has to be analysed on a per case basis. In my own publishing of RSC material, I asked permission to mount it purely as a pilot project, with no committment from the RSC involved. They were kind enough to grant me this permission, although also making it clear that this permission was not generic. I gather a more formal statement will be included in the instructions to authors in due course. Another publisher gave me the more formal answer "they reserved the right to all electronic storage and distribution rights" to the material I had submitted to them. I am still waiting clarification if this means that I cannot store the papers on floppy or hard disk. Basically, few publishers have really formalised this situation, and I found that they often do not have a policy they can give you. In the longer term, we face an interesting situation. If authors do not get "value for money" from publishers, we could in theory make do without them entirely! How we as authors handle refereeing, and "time stamping" of papers then becomes an issue. I would like to suggest the following 1) Scientific societies continue to handle refereeing [or authors set up societies to act on their behalf in this capacity] 2) We as authors pay them to do this 3) The papers continue being "free" on the www (ie the cost moves from journal subscription by readers to the authors. It would nevertheless have to be a reasonable amount. How about $100? This would certainly discourage fragmentation!!) 4) Societies issue a "one time" public decryption key. This effectively "time stamps" the paper, and also ensures that it cannot be tampered with. This key is the "quality control" mechanism which ensures the paper has been refereed 4) The decryption keys are published freely. Anyone can use them to decode (but not to re-encode) www papers. This would ensure that students are not penalised, and continue having free access. 5) After a certain time on the www, papers are archived onto CD-ROM, which are then made available by scientific societies (at a price perhaps) 6) Someone, if market conditions make it attractive, could offer printed versions of papers. 7) Someone needs to write all the software to make this happen! Any offers? Dr Henry Rzepa, Dept. Chemistry, Imperial College, LONDON SW7 2AY; rzepa@ic.ac.uk via Eudora 2.02, Tel:+44 71 225 8339, Fax:+44 71 589 3869. From June '94: (44) 171 584 5774, Fax: (44) 171 584 5804 http://www.ch.ic.ac.uk/rzepa.html From wgalazka@chem.uw.edu.pl Wed Mar 16 06:41:52 1994 Received: from sunic.sunet.se for wgalazka@chem.uw.edu.pl by www.ccl.net (8.6.4/930601.1506) id FAA28701; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 05:57:34 -0500 Received: from chem.uw.edu.pl by sunic.sunet.se (8.6.4/2.03) id LAA21683; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 11:56:59 +0100 Received: from [148.81.21.70] (caesar.chem.uw.edu.pl) by chem.uw.edu.pl (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04644; Wed, 16 Mar 94 11:55:36 +0100 Organization: Department of Chemistry, University of Warsaw Address: Pasteura 1, 02-093 Warsaw, Poland. Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 11:42:36 +0100 From: "Wojciech Galazka" Message-Id: <18061.wgalazka@chem.uw.edu.pl> X-Minuet-Version: Minuet1.0_Beta_11 Reply-To: X-Popmail-Charset: English To: Chemistry@ccl.net Subject: Re: CCL:IGLO program On Tue, 15 Mar 1994 10:23:42 GMT, Michael wrote: >Hi all, > >Does anybody have any information about the IGLO program for >calculating chemical shielding (i.e. cost, availability etc). This is a letter sent to me that contains some recent information about IGLO. I hope this helps. From Ulrich.Fleischer@RUBA.RZ.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Thu Mar 10 23:02:39 1994Received: from rubb.rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de by chem.uw.edu.pl (4.1/SMI- 4.1) id AA26006; Thu, 10 Mar 94 23:02:21 +0100 Organization: Department of Chemistry, University of Warsaw Address: Pasteura 1, 02-093 Warsaw, Poland. Received: from ruba.rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (ruba_el.rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de [134.147.192.2]) by rubb.rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (8.5/8.5) with SMTP id XAA28691; Thu, 10 Mar 1994 23:03:19 +0100 From: Ulrich.Fleischer@RUBA.RZ.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Received: from DE*D400*RUHR-UNI-BOCHUM by RUBA.RZ.RUHR-UNI-BOCHUM.DE via QTFS with X.400; Thu, 10 Mar 1994 23:01:51 +0100 X400-Received: by /PRMD=RUHR-UNI-BOCHUM/ADMD=D400/C=DE/ ; Relayed ; Thu, 10 Mar 1994 23:01:45 +0100 X400-Received: by mta MTARUBA ; Relayed ; Thu, 10 Mar 1994 23:01:50 +0100 Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 23:01:45 +0100 Message-Id: <940310230005201-MTARUBA*Ulrich.Fleischer@RUBA.RZ.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> P1-Message-Id: DE*D400*RUHR-UNI-BOCHUM; 940310230005201-MTARUBA Ua-Content-Id: 940310230005201- Subject: Reply to Info about IGLO Autoforwarded: FALSE To: wgalazka@chem.uw.edu.pl In-Reply-To: <376.wgalazka@zoolook.chem.uw.edu.pl_POPMail/PC_3.2.3_Beta_2> Dear Dr. Galazka, please excuse that I did not write to you earlier. The version of the IGLO programme which can be distributed without larger problems is a conventional (i.e. non-direct) one, which is based in parts on the MOLPRO package. For the conditions see the attached letter of Schindler and Kutzelnigg. The programme will run on any UNIX based system, although some changes might have to made for systems we (or other people) have not yet installed the code (cf. the letter attached). As is pointed out in the letter of MS and WK the bottleneck - as for any non-direct Hartree-Fock type calculation - is the (scratch) disk space needed to store the two-electron integrals. The (semi-)direct version of the programme is interfaced to the TURBOMOLE package of the Karlruhe group (Ahlrichs and coworkers), which is now being sold by BIOSYM. Thus ast least a TURBOMOLE license is necessary to get the (D)IGLO part. Mit freundlichen Gruessen aus Bochum Ulli Fleischer P.S. A copy of Schindler and Kutzelnigg letter mentioned above is attaced. A list of some references is also attached. P.P.S. If there are any other questions, please contact me - I'll try to answer them (please excuse, if that might take some time) __________________________________________________________________________ Ruhr - Universitae t Bochum Fakultaet fue r Chemie Lehrstuhl fue r Theoretische Chemie - Prof. Dr. W. Kutzelnigg - - Dr. M. Schindler - Ruhr - Universitaet Bochum 44780 Bochum Telefon : +49-234-7006485 Telex : 0825860 Telefax : +49-234-709 4109 E-Mail : werner.kutzelnigg @ ruba.rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de Dear colleague, you inquired about the possibility to get a copy of the IGLO program. A considerably improved version - we did a major re-write of the code - is available now for distribution. It should install itself quasi automatically on most UNIX workstations. However, since we currently only have Sun SPARC and IBM RS/6000 workstations, the installation procedure has only been tested on such machines. We can provide the code as a tar-file either on 150 MB QIC or on 2.3 GB 8mm-tapes. If you absolutely have no other choice, a distribution on (several) 3.5 inch 1.44 MB diskettes is possible as well. If you are on Internet, we can also send the program via FTP, provided you create a user account for this purpose on your machine and tell us the password. Please write us which way is most convenient for you. We ask you to send an empty tape as well if it applies. The tape contains documentation in LATeX-format, and we hope you have the possibility to get it printed. If you have TeX, but no LATeX, we can provide as well the DVI-file, which you can then submit to your printer. The improvements of the IGLO program are such that we are confident that your computational resources will be sufficient for an IGLO calculation if you can do a conventional Hartree-Fock calculation on the same molecule. In most cases, the size of the disks where you have to store the two-electron integrals will be the limiting factor. Let us remind you the conditions under which the IGLO program is released. 1. The user is supposed to inform us at the beginning about the topic that he wants to study and the molecules to be computed. This should help to avoid duplication of work, the rediscovery of available results, and the application of the IGLO methods to cases for which it has not been designed. 2. Since the use of the IGLO program can only be recommended to scientists which have some background in computational quantum chemistry, the user should contact us concerning the choice of basis sets and other technical details unless this is obvious from the available literature. He should also inform us about unexpected difficulties or possible errors. 3. We expect to receive preprints and manuscripts in preparation, in which IGLO results are reported, or at least the IGLO-relevant parts of those, in particular for classes of compounds that are not studied routinely and generally from colleagues just starting in the field. 4. The user agrees to use the IGLO program only within his research group and not to give it to third persons without our special permission. 5. So far the IGLO program is free of charge for scientists who work in non-profit making institutes. __________________________________________________________________________ There are three reviews (a few others are in press and/or going to be submitted) W. Kutzelnigg, U. Fleischer, M. Schindler NMR: Basic Princ. Prog. 1990 23 165-262 The IGLO-Method: Ab-initio Calculation and Interpretation of NMR Chemical Shifts and Magnetic Susceptibilities W. Kutzelnigg, C. v. W\"ullen, U .Fleischer, R. Franke, T. v. Mourik in: Nuclear Magnetic Shieldings and Molecular Structure, J. Tossell (ed.), NATO ASI series, Kluwer, 1993 141-161 The IGLO method. Recent developments C. v. W\"ullen, W. Kutzelnigg in: Methods and Techniques in Computational Chemistry: METECC 94 Volume B: Medium Size Systems E. Clementi (ed.), STEF, Cagliari, 1993 389-421 The IGLO method. Ab-initio calculations of magnetic susceptibilities and NMR shielding tensors (chemical shifts) ( additionally there is a review on the calcualtion of properties where, of course, magnetic properties and the IGLO method are also included W. Kutzelnigg Theochem 1989 202 11-61 Ab initio calculation of molecular properties ) These are some refs. on the IGLO method and applications of IGLO (see also refs. in the reviews) M. Schindler, W. Kutzelnigg J. Chem. Phys. 1982 76 1919-1933 Theory of magnetic susceptibilities and NMR chemical shifts in terms of localized quantities. II. Applications to some simple molecules M. Schindler J. Am. Chem. Soc. 1987 109 1020-1033 Magnetic properties in terms of localized quantities. 5. Carbocations U. Fleischer, M. Schindler, W. Kutzelnigg J. Chem. Phys. 1987 86 6337-6347 Magnetic properties in terms of localized quantities. VI. Small hydrides, fluorides, and homonuclear molecules of phosphorus and silicon U. Fleischer, M. Schindler Chem. Phys. 1988 120 103-121 Magnetic properties in terms of localized quantities. XI. Fluorine compounds of first row-elements M. B\"uhl, N.J.E.v.E. Hommes, P.v.R. Schleyer, U. Fleischer, W. Kutzelnigg J. Am. Chem. Soc. 1991 113 2459-2465 Applications and Evaluations of IGLO Chemical Shift Calculations for Organolithium Compounds U. Fleischer, W. Kutzelnigg, A. Bleiber, J. Sauer J. Am. Chem . Soc. 1993 115 7833-7838 $^1$H NMR Chemical Shift and Intrinsic Acidity of Hydroxyls Groups. Ab Initio Calculations on Catlytically Active Sites and Gas Phase Molecules U. Fleischer, W. Kutzelnigg, P. Lazzeretti, V. M\"uhlenkamp J. Am. Chem . Soc. 1994 in press IGLO study of benzene and some of its iosmers and related molecules. Search for evidence of the ring-current model Schleyer and coworkers have used the IGLO method (NMR-IGLO-ab-initio approach) for structure elucidation in several cases see M. B\"uhl, P.v.R. Schleyer J. Am. Chem. Soc. 1992 114 477-491 Application and Evaluation of ab Initio Chemical Shift Calculations for Boranes and Carboranes. How Reliable Are "Accurate" Experimental Structures? and refs cited therein direct IGLO (DIGLO) is described in U. Meier, C. v. W\"ullen, M. Schindler J. Comp. Chem. 1992 13 551 Ab initio calculation of magnetic properties by the "direct" IGLO method multiconfigurational (MC) IGLO is described in C. v. W\"ullen, W. Kutzelnigg Chem. Phys. Letters 1993 205 563 The MC-IGLO method see also W. Kutzelnigg, C. v. W\"ullen, U .Fleischer, R. Franke, T. v. Mourik in: Nuclear Magnetic Shieldings and Molecular Structure, J. Tossell (ed.), NATO ASI series, Kluwer, 1993 141-161 The IGLO method. Recent developments From ifm.oos@macpost.lidac.liu.se Wed Mar 16 08:41:54 1994 Received: from mailgw.liu.se for ifm.oos@macpost.lidac.liu.se by www.ccl.net (8.6.4/930601.1506) id IAA29258; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 08:16:17 -0500 Received: from macpost.lidac.liu.se by mailgw.liu.se with SMTP (5.61-bind 1.2+ida/IDA-1.2.8.2/LTH) id AA19246; Wed, 16 Mar 94 14:15:19 +0100 Subject: Pseudo-Jahn-Teller effect To: CHEMISTRY@ccl.net From: Anton van Oosten Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 14:16:06 +0100 Message-Id: <940316.141606.22979@macpost.lidac.liu.se> Hi. I regularly encounter the 'pseudo-Jahn-Teller effect' as an explanation for symmetry lowering when the Jahn-Teller theorem does not apply. What is the theorical basis of this term ? Or does it only state what did *not* cause the phenomenon ? Any comments or literature references are welcome ! _____________________________________________________ Anton Van Oosten University of Linkoeping Internet: oos@ifm.liu.se IFM/FOA, FOA-huset Phone: +46 13 282380 S-581 83 LINKOEPING SWEDEN Fax: +46 13 142337 _____________________________________________________ From Leif.Laaksonen@pobox.csc.fi Wed Mar 16 09:41:53 1994 Received: from pobox.csc.fi for Leif.Laaksonen@pobox.csc.fi by www.ccl.net (8.6.4/930601.1506) id JAA29869; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 09:24:31 -0500 Received: from [128.214.46.163] (laaksone.csc.fi) by pobox.csc.fi with SMTP id AA29794 (5.65c8+/IDA-1.4.4); Wed, 16 Mar 1994 16:21:03 +0200 Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 16:21:03 +0200 Message-Id: <199403161421.AA29794@pobox.csc.fi> X-Sender: laaksone@finsun.csc.fi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h.rzepa@ic.ac.uk (Henry Rzepa) (Henry Rzepa) From: Leif.Laaksonen@csc.fi Subject: Re: CCL:Legal issues about stuff put under Mosaic Cc: chemistry@ccl.net Henry Rzepa raised several interesting questions. As it looks to me the publishers have not made up their mind about the new techniques. Statements like "they reserved the right to all electronic storage and distribution rights to the material I had submitted to them" sounds horrifying to me. I can understand that a publisher owns the rights to distribute the material in the format THEY have prepared bur everything more than that sounds very drastic. It's very true that quite a lot could be published (distributed) already without a publisher. The key question is (as Henry Rzepa pointed out) how the scientific quality of the material could be guaranteed. The idea about the decryption key sounds interesting. However, I just wonder how well it would work in "real world" applications. One other thing comes here into my mind which has to do with the abuse of the WWW material. I just wonder how many research applications and publications there will soon around which have been glued together from files available in the WWW space. Some kind of a decryption key could prevent this abuse. -leif laaksonen ------------------------------------------------------------------- Leif Laaksonen | Center for Scientific Computing | Phone: 358 0 4572378 P.O. Box 405 | Telefax: 358 0 4572302 FIN-02101 Espoo | Voice Mail: 358 486257407 FINLAND | Mail: Leif.Laaksonen@csc.fi --------URL: http://www.csc.fi/lul/leif/leif.laaksonen.html-------- New opinions are always suspected, and usually opposed, without any other reason but because they are not already common. John Locke ------------------------------------------------------------------- From Leif.Laaksonen@pobox.csc.fi Wed Mar 16 09:46:11 1994 Received: from pobox.csc.fi for Leif.Laaksonen@pobox.csc.fi by www.ccl.net (8.6.4/930601.1506) id JAA29848; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 09:22:54 -0500 Received: from [128.214.46.163] (laaksone.csc.fi) by pobox.csc.fi with SMTP id AA29794 (5.65c8+/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Wed, 16 Mar 1994 16:21:03 +0200 Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 16:21:03 +0200 Message-Id: <199403161421.AA29794@pobox.csc.fi> X-Sender: laaksone@finsun.csc.fi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h.rzepa@ic.ac.uk (Henry Rzepa) (Henry Rzepa) From: Leif.Laaksonen@csc.fi Subject: Re: CCL:Legal issues about stuff put under Mosaic Cc: chemistry@ccl.net Henry Rzepa raised several interesting questions. As it looks to me the publishers have not made up their mind about the new techniques. Statements like "they reserved the right to all electronic storage and distribution rights to the material I had submitted to them" sounds horrifying to me. I can understand that a publisher owns the rights to distribute the material in the format THEY have prepared bur everything more than that sounds very drastic. It's very true that quite a lot could be published (distributed) already without a publisher. The key question is (as Henry Rzepa pointed out) how the scientific quality of the material could be guaranteed. The idea about the decryption key sounds interesting. However, I just wonder how well it would work in "real world" applications. One other thing comes here into my mind which has to do with the abuse of the WWW material. I just wonder how many research applications and publications there will soon around which have been glued together from files available in the WWW space. Some kind of a decryption key could prevent this abuse. -leif laaksonen ------------------------------------------------------------------- Leif Laaksonen | Center for Scientific Computing | Phone: 358 0 4572378 P.O. Box 405 | Telefax: 358 0 4572302 FIN-02101 Espoo | Voice Mail: 358 486257407 FINLAND | Mail: Leif.Laaksonen@csc.fi --------URL: http://www.csc.fi/lul/leif/leif.laaksonen.html-------- New opinions are always suspected, and usually opposed, without any other reason but because they are not already common. John Locke ------------------------------------------------------------------- From loki@amethyst.Chemie.Uni-Dortmund.DE Wed Mar 16 10:42:05 1994 Received: from nx1.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE for loki@amethyst.Chemie.Uni-Dortmund.DE by www.ccl.net (8.6.4/930601.1506) id KAA00531; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 10:00:58 -0500 Received: from amethyst.Chemie.Uni-Dortmund.DE by nx1.hrz.uni-dortmund.de with SMTP (PP); Wed, 16 Mar 1994 15:59:22 +0100 Received: by amethyst.Chemie.Uni-Dortmund.DE (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/HRZ-V1.0-AIX-12/20/93-15:39:02) id AA17188; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 16:01:47 +0100 From: loki@amethyst.Chemie.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Lothar Koniczek) Message-Id: <9403161501.AA17188@amethyst.Chemie.Uni-Dortmund.DE> Subject: CCL:Legal issues about stuff put under Mosaic To: chemistry@ccl.net Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 16:01:42 +0100 (NFT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL2] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3613 -Dr Henry Rzepa writes: > >-leif laaksonen writes: > >> >>We have been running a WWW server here for some time in biochemistry, >>computational chemistry and mathematics. I have been fascinated by the >>possibilities Mosaic has. To make the information setup as complete >>and good as possible I have also put up some of my publications. >> >>The question is now. Do I have the right to make the text and figures >>from my publications publicly available through Mosaic? When a manuscript gets >>accepted we usually have to sign the paper where we give the rights to >>publish the manuscript to a publisher. >> >>Could somebody explain me which rights we are giving away to the publisher? >>Are the publishers very strict about this issue? For me it sounds very >>strange if we have agreed to give away the "words" and information in our >>publications. Or are we just prohibited to use the layout and setting in which >>the manuscript gets published in a journal? > > >The short answer is that every paper has to be analysed on a per >case basis. In my own publishing of RSC material, I asked permission >to mount it purely as a pilot project, with no committment from the >RSC involved. They were kind enough to grant me this permission, >although also making it clear that this permission was not generic. >I gather a more formal statement will be included in the instructions to >authors in due course. Another publisher gave me the more formal >answer "they reserved the right to all electronic storage and distribution >rights" to the material I had submitted to them. I am still waiting >clarification if this means that I cannot store the papers on floppy or >hard disk. > Hm, have you thought about rewriting the text without changing the meaning of the paper. Well, it seems to me that some scientists write articles which have the same contents and are published in different journals. From a different point of view, the restriction of publishing an article in only one journal serves as a garantee too, that there will be only ONE citation possible. Just imagine that you have written an article about superconductivity, published for example in J. phys. soc...... then you will put a copy on URL: http://netweb.anywhere.net/publish/article.html So this can be cited twice: [1] Superconductivity, H. Rzepa, J. phys. soc........ [2] Superconductivity, H. Rzepa, http://netweb.anywhere.net/publish/article.html To a lot of readers it may occur, that you have written two different articles concerning superconductivity. Well, i think one should think about where to publish an article, cause the WWW is a publishing media same as a scientific newsletter. As a matter of fact you have three choices: 1.) Put a message on a Web-Server where to find your published article 2.) Rewrite your article for the Web 3.) Write an article and publish it ONLY via Web, but have in mind that not all scientists have access to the Web or even know of it. Please, don't misunderstand me. This is not critics or even a flame. These are just my thoughts to this subject. Anyway it will be a nice idea setting up a Web-Server for scientific publications. KEYBOARD FAILURE PRESS ANY KEY TO RESUME ---IBM ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Name: Dipl.-Chem. Lothar Koniczek | | Working at: University of Dortmund (Germany) / Department of Chemistry | | E-mail: loki@amethyst.chemie.uni-dortmund.de | | Voice: +49 0231 755-3891 | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From schw0531@compszrz.zrz.tu-berlin.de Wed Mar 16 11:41:53 1994 Received: from mailgzrz.TU-Berlin.DE for schw0531@compszrz.zrz.tu-berlin.de by www.ccl.net (8.6.4/930601.1506) id KAA01206; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 10:47:15 -0500 Received: from compszrz.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE by mailgzrz.TU-Berlin.DE (5.65c/ZRZ-MX) for id AA06068; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 16:39:32 +0100 Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 16:39:32 +0100 From: Helmut Schwarz Message-Id: <9403161539.AA28035@compszrz.zrz.tu-berlin.de> To: CHEMISTRY@ccl.net Subject: C28 Dear Netters, Could somebody provide me with cartesian coordinates of the C28 carbon cluster ? Jan Hrusak schw0531@compszrz.zrz.tu-berlin.de From chp1aa@surrey.ac.uk Wed Mar 16 11:44:46 1994 Received: from sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk for chp1aa@surrey.ac.uk by www.ccl.net (8.6.4/930601.1506) id LAA01970; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 11:32:45 -0500 Via: uk.ac.surrey; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 15:31:11 +0000 Via: central.surrey.ac.uk; Wed, 16 Mar 94 15:31:06 GMT Received: by central.surrey.ac.uk (1.37.109.8/16.2) id AA22990; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 15:31:04 GMT From: Mr Andrew D Allen Message-Id: <9403161531.AA22990@central.surrey.ac.uk> Subject: CCL: QM optimisation of triple bonded systems To: chemistry@ccl.net Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 15:31:03 GMT Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] This may be a FAQ, so reply to me directly to avoid the flames... How to you get QM packages such as MNDO, AM1, PM3 etc to accept systems such as H-C#C-H (ethyne, acetylene) without them complaining about the atomes being in a stright line... Andy -- ################################################################################ Structural and Computation Chemistry Group__________chp1aa@uk.ac.surrey - JANET. Department of Chemistry_____________________________phone__+44(483)-300800-2632. University of Surrey________________________________fax_________+44(483)-300803. Guildford, Surrey, GU2 5XH, UK______________________fpt____________131.227.110.2 ################################################################################ From whobey@WPI.EDU Wed Mar 16 11:47:17 1994 Received: from bigboote.WPI.EDU for whobey@WPI.EDU by www.ccl.net (8.6.4/930601.1506) id LAA02029; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 11:37:12 -0500 Received: from wpi.WPI.EDU (whobey@wpi.WPI.EDU [130.215.24.1]) by bigboote.WPI.EDU (8.6.7/8.6) with ESMTP id LAA23199 for ; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 11:37:08 -0500 From: William D Hobey Received: (whobey@localhost) by wpi.WPI.EDU (8.6.7/8.6) id LAA12731; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 11:37:07 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 11:37:07 -0500 Message-Id: <199403161637.LAA12731@wpi.WPI.EDU> To: CHEMISTRY@ccl.net Subject: Pseudo-Jahn-Teller Effect In reply to Anton Van Oosten's question, I interpret the Jahn-Teller Effect as the coupling of two degenerate electronic states through a vibrational mode of motion, while the Pseudo-Jahn-Teller Effect is the coupling of two nearly degenerate electronic states through a vibration. Mathematically, the only difference is that the diagonal matrix elements (in, say, a perturbation treatment) are equal in one case, and differ to a "small" extent (of the order of vibrational energies) in the other. Physically, there appears to be no significant difference between the two cases. For basic theory see W.D.Hobey and A.D.McLachlan, "Dynamical Jahn-Teller Effect in Hydrocarbon Radicals", J. Chem. Phys. 33, 1695 (1960). For a simple minded application, see W.D.Hobey, "Vibronic Interactions of Nearly Degenerate States in Substituted Benzene Anions", J. Chem. Phys. 43, 2187 (1965). Bill Hobey From h.rzepa@ic.ac.uk Wed Mar 16 13:41:54 1994 Received: from punch.ic.ac.uk for h.rzepa@ic.ac.uk by www.ccl.net (8.6.4/930601.1506) id NAA03496; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 13:09:00 -0500 Received: from sg1.cc.ic.ac.uk by punch.ic.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <26896-0@punch.ic.ac.uk>; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 18:08:29 +0000 Received: from macb.ch by cscmgb.cc.ic.ac.uk (920330.SGI/4.0) id AA03964; Wed, 16 Mar 94 18:07:51 GMT Message-Id: <9403161807.AA03964@cscmgb.cc.ic.ac.uk> X-Sender: rzepa@sg1.cc.ic.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 18:08:26 +0000 To: CHEMISTRY@ccl.net From: h.rzepa@ic.ac.uk (Henry Rzepa) (Henry Rzepa) Subject: www/publishing and Encryption In an earlier message, I raised the possibility of encrypting www documents. I was not the first. I am given to understand that the www organisation in CERN has indeed been approached by publishers wishing to encrypt www documents. The idea is that a future protocol would include this capability. Of course one may surmise that two types of decryption key might emerge; those which you pay for and those for which you get free (ie the authors themselves have paid all the costs involved) It will indeed be an interesting test of market forces as to which prevails! If anyone finds any draft www or Internet documents relating to this (my information was purely over the phone) please let me know. Dr Henry Rzepa, Dept. Chemistry, Imperial College, LONDON SW7 2AY; rzepa@ic.ac.uk via Eudora 2.02, Tel:+44 71 225 8339, Fax:+44 71 589 3869. From June '94: (44) 171 584 5774, Fax: (44) 171 584 5804 http://www.ch.ic.ac.uk/rzepa.html From mac134@herald.usask.ca Wed Mar 16 14:41:57 1994 Received: from herald.usask.ca for mac134@herald.usask.ca by www.ccl.net (8.6.4/930601.1506) id OAA13601; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 14:37:00 -0500 Received: by herald.usask.ca (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA22196; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 13:36:48 -0600 for Chemistry@ccl.net Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 13:36:47 -0600 (CST) From: Mahmood Chamankhah Subject: Any info regarding workshop or meeting held in Chicago? To: Chemistry@ccl.net In-Reply-To: <199403092349.SAA00809@www.ccl.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi everybody; I heared about a "meeting or a workshop on molecular modeling" that will be held in Chicago next summer (July). I'm looking for any info on that, since seems to me that this is going to be sponsored be an institution (e.g. University of Illinois) rather than industry. Any response is graetely appreciated. Yours all Mahmood Chamankhah, Pharm.D. Fax Number: 306-966-6377 College of Pharmacy E-mail: Chamankhah@skyfox.usask.ca University of Saskatchewan Mac134@herald.usask.ca Saskatoon, Sask. Canada S7N 1L7 From 100012.1163@CompuServe.COM Wed Mar 16 15:41:55 1994 Received: from dub-img-1.compuserve.com for 100012.1163@CompuServe.COM by www.ccl.net (8.6.4/930601.1506) id PAA17974; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 15:19:29 -0500 Received: from localhost by dub-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.4/5.930129sam) id PAA25321; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 15:18:57 -0500 Date: 16 Mar 94 15:08:52 EST From: "Rainer Stumpe 100012,1163" <100012.1163@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Legal issue Message-ID: <940316200851_100012.1163_BHL62-1@CompuServe.COM> To: >internet:chemistry@ccl.net From 100012.1163@compuserve.com Subj: Re: Legal issues about Mosaic Dear Fellow Netters, Let me add my comments to the discussion. I am a publisher, however, the view expressed here may not be the official view of Springer-Verlag. Under the German Copyright law, we understand that an author implicitly accepts the conditions for publication by submitting a paper to the journal's editors. The publication contract is closed by the note of acception. From that moment, the author is bound to follow the conditions. While the author's right on his intellectual property remains with him, he transfers the right to print, publish, distribute and sell through-out the world the journal containing his contribution. This transfer is EXCLUSIVE for one year. After that time, the transfer is non- exclusive, i.e. the author may submit the paper to another publisher or distribute copies himself. Beware: not copies of the published contribution, as the form of the printed version remains the property of the publisher. The publisher's continues to have the original rights. There are many more agreements, usually negotiated by associations of scientists and publishers; there are international codes of practice, e.g. among STM publishers (Scientific, Technical, Medical). All that material fills volumes of a library and it would lead too far to explicit the whole beauty of International Copyright. To answer the questions raised earlier, the above might suffice. The question whether or not it is permitted to make the contents of a paper submitted or to be submitted to a journal publicly available is to my knowledge not finally answered. Let us take a practical approach, however. Making the result of an scientific publication publicly available is only one side of the coint. You as authors should also be aware that you want to document the priority of solving a problem. How can you do that on an internet server? Remember, we still live in a time where official documentation is bound to the printed form! Just imagine, a competitor by chance reads your innovative paper and submits the result to a journal. YOUR discovery will for ever be attributed to that plagiator. Legally speaking, submitting a paper to a journal after the contents are placed under Mosaic would constitute an act of fraud. The publisher might enter the contract without knowing you were no longer in the position to grant exclusive publication right. Do not be afraid: I do not think any publisher would prosecute you (at least not until a valiant publisher started a court suit to clarify the question). I would recommend that any author informs the publisher that he has placed the manuscript on a server at the time of submission. That would leave the choice to enter the contract with the author to the publisher. At least the publisher could not argue he entered the contract ignorant. Personally, I would grant an author the right to put his manuscript on a server, if he properly cites the journal. Of course, I strongly recommend to do this only AFTER publication (the priority issue, remember?). I would also suggest to add the server's address to the paper when receiving the proofs. Hope it helps you make the right decission. Sincerely, Dr. Rainer Stumpe Sciences Publisher Springer-Verlag Tiergartenstr. 17 D-69121 Heidelberg Phone: +49-(0)6221-487 310 Fax: +49-(0)6221-487 366 Internet: Stumpe@spint.compuserve.com From BROWNF@scri.fsu.edu Wed Mar 16 17:41:58 1994 Received: from VAXDAD.SCRI.FSU.EDU for BROWNF@scri.fsu.edu by www.ccl.net (8.6.4/930601.1506) id RAA29011; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 17:40:48 -0500 From: Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 17:40:45 -0500 (EST) To: BROWNF@scri.fsu.edu, chemistry@ccl.net Message-Id: <940316174045.35201a99@scri.fsu.edu> Subject: Papers on internet In the latest issue of Sigma Xi's "American Scientist" (/ Volume 82, no. 2, page 108) there is an article by Brian Hayes entitled "The Network Newstand" which discusses many of the issues associated with papers on the internet. According to the article, there are currently 137 "journals, magazines, newsletters and other periodicals" available on the internet. Frank Brown Chemistry Department Tallahassee Community College Tallahassee, FL 32304 email: brownf@scri.fsu.edu From bruce@dggpi2.chem.purdue.edu Wed Mar 16 17:46:26 1994 Received: from mentor.cc.purdue.edu for bruce@dggpi2.chem.purdue.edu by www.ccl.net (8.6.4/930601.1506) id QAA24944; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 16:53:11 -0500 Received: from dggpi2.chem.purdue.edu by mentor.cc.purdue.edu (5.61/Purdue_CC) id AA01457; Wed, 16 Mar 94 16:53:08 -0500 Received: by dggpi2.chem.purdue.edu (931110.SGI.ANONFTP/931108.SGI.ANONFTP) for @mentor.cc.purdue.edu:CHEMISTRY@ccl.net id AA14263; Wed, 16 Mar 94 16:53:00 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 16:53:00 -0500 From: bruce@dggpi2.chem.purdue.edu (Bruce Luxon) Message-Id: <9403162153.AA14263@dggpi2.chem.purdue.edu> To: CHEMISTRY@ccl.net Subject: MORASS NEWS RE: Program MORASS for NMR Structural Characterization and Simulation MORASS (Multiple Overhauser Relaxation AnalysiS and Simulation) has been available over the net for about a year now. We are attempting to put together a user's list to get some idea how many users we have and what their experiences are. This would also allow us to distribute update information quickly and easily. If you are using MORASS (or have used it), could you please send me an email note to that effect and please include any comments you would like (the more the better, don't be bashful). Thanks in advance. Bruce ____________________________________________________________________________ | | | |"You can't always get what you want, | Dr. Bruce A. Luxon | | But if you try sometimes, | Chemistry Department | | You just might find | Purdue University | | You get what you need ..." | W. Lafayette, IN 47907 | | | (317)494-5289; Fax (317)494-0239 | | Mick Jagger | bruce@dggpi2.chem.purdue.edu | |______________________________________|___________________________________| From states@ibc.wustl.edu Wed Mar 16 19:41:58 1994 Received: from wugate.wustl.edu for states@ibc.wustl.edu by www.ccl.net (8.6.4/930601.1506) id SAA29452; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 18:45:38 -0500 Received: by wugate.wustl.edu (5.67b+/WUSTL-0.3) with SMTP id AA27415; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 17:45:18 -0600 Received: by ibc.WUStL.EDU (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA20691; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 17:45:11 +0600 Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 17:45:11 +0600 From: states@ibc.wustl.edu (David J. States) Message-Id: <9403162345.AA20691@ibc.WUStL.EDU> To: chemistry@ccl.net, 100012.1163@CompuServe.COM Subject: Re: CCL:Legal issue X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 2532 While Rainer Stumpe has made many valuable contributions to the CCL, I must take issue with this posting: |> Under the German Copyright law, we understand that an author |> implicitly accepts the conditions for publication by submitting |> a paper to the journal's editors. ... But implicit contracts are alway subordinate to explicit contracts such as a cover letter stating that all or part of a manuscript has been previously distributed. |> The question whether or not it is permitted to make the |> contents of a paper submitted or to be submitted to a journal |> publicly available is to my knowledge not finally answered. ... Again, explicit negotiations subordinate any implicit agreements. If the cover letter states that a manuscript will also be electronically distributed, the publisher may refuse to publish it. If the publisher accepts the manuscript under those terms, they have no grounds for a later complaint. |> Let |> us take a practical approach, however. Making the result of an |> scientific publication publicly available is only one side of |> the coint. You as authors should also be aware that you want to |> document the priority of solving a problem. How can you do that |> on an internet server? Remember, we still live in a time where |> official documentation is bound to the printed form! Just |> imagine, a competitor by chance reads your innovative paper and |> submits the result to a journal. YOUR discovery will for ever |> be attributed to that plagiator. On the other hand, it is not unusual for many months to elapse between the time a manuscript is submitted and the time a hardcopy journal appears. If you COMPETITOR's results are distributed throughout the world months ahead of your own, he will get credit regardless of who really got the data first. As far as documenting priority, the electronic version will be time and date stamped and archived around the world. US patent law certainly considers electronic publication as well as hardcopy in establishing dates and priority. |> Legally speaking, submitting a paper to a journal after the |> contents are placed under Mosaic would constitute an act of |> fraud. ... This is self-serving nonsense. Publishers may decline to publish manuscripts that are independently distributed. That is a business decision on their part. The author's only responsibility is to inform the publisher of such arrangements at the time of submission. David States Institute for Biomedical Computing / Washington University in St. Louis From kr@shell.portal.com Wed Mar 16 20:42:02 1994 Received: from nova.unix.portal.com for kr@shell.portal.com by www.ccl.net (8.6.4/930601.1506) id TAA29711; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 19:50:38 -0500 Received: from jobe.shell.portal.com (jobe.shell.portal.com [156.151.1.104]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.4/8.6.5) with ESMTP id QAA01945 for ; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 16:51:24 -0800 Received: from DialupEudora (localhost.portal.com [127.0.0.1]) by jobe.shell.portal.com (8.6.4/8.6.4) with SMTP id QAA02968 for ; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 16:51:15 -0800 Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 16:51:15 -0800 Message-Id: <199403170051.QAA02968@jobe.shell.portal.com> X-Sender: kr@127.0.0.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: chemistry@ccl.net From: kr@shell.portal.com (kr) Subject: Re: CCL:Legal issues about stuff put under Mosaic At 16:21 3/16/94 +0200, Leif.Laaksonen@csc.fi wrote: >It's very true that quite a lot could be published (distributed) already >without a publisher. The key question is (as Henry Rzepa pointed out) >how the scientific quality of the material could be guaranteed. For getting inspired by what a world might look like with individual publishing on a densely inter-knitted hypertext system, where issues of reputation, reviews, and filtering become of major importance, I recommend reading chapter 14 "The Network of Knowledge" in "Engines of Creation" by K. E. Drexler, Anchor/Doubleday, 1986. The remainder of the book is just as excellent, illustrating what chemistry will be like in the not too distant future. The issue of scientific quality of net-published articles can be assured if mechanisms are put into place whereby people can comment on the quality and read-worthiness of other papers, and readers will quickly learn to get their pointers from high quality reviewers, whose judgment they trust. Greetings Markus Krummenacker From apa@adfa.oz.au Wed Mar 16 20:47:05 1994 Received: from sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au for apa@adfa.oz.au by www.ccl.net (8.6.4/930601.1506) id UAA29815; Wed, 16 Mar 1994 20:22:52 -0500 Received: from [131.236.60.11] (apamac.ch.adfa.oz.au) by sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au (5.67a/1.34) id AA11622; Thu, 17 Mar 1994 11:22:16 +1000 Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 11:22:16 +1000 Message-Id: <199403170122.AA11622@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au> X-Sender: apa@pop.cc.adfa.oz.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: chemistry@ccl.net From: apa@adfa.oz.au (Alan Arnold) Subject: Re:Legal issues about stuff put under Mosaic Leif Laaksonen writes >We have been running a WWW server here for some time in biochemistry, >computational chemistry and mathematics. I have been fascinated by the >possibilities Mosaic has. To make the information setup as complete >and good as possible I have also put up some of my publications. ... some stuff deleted >In principle (I believe) it is also forbidden in Finland to include >people's names into services like Mosaic. This should fall under the >regulations of building data bases containing personal information and >making them publicly available. >and lots of very pertinent questions re WWW and copyright etc Since I have recently implemented the Australian Chemical WWW server (http://apamac.ch.adfa.oz.au), I too am interested in hearing some comments. For example: What are the ACS or Royal Society of Chemistry attitudes to Web-available manuscripts etc. What are problems with publicly available lists of email addresses etc. How does this impinge on 'mailing lists' like CCL? I'm considering implementing an OzChem mailing list for teaching/research/admin interests of the Australian chemical community. The advantages of such a list seem obvious to me, but some discussion of the pitfalls would be extremely helpful! ---- Alan Arnold, Chemistry Department, University College (UNSW) Australian Defence Force Academy, CANBERRA ACT 2601 Australia voice:+61 6 268 8080 fax:+61 6 268 8002 e-mail: apa@adfa.oz.au web: http://apamac.ch.adfa.oz.au/