From jkl@ccl.net Thu Mar 2 02:08:53 1995 Received: for jkl@ccl.net by www.ccl.net (8.6.10/930601.1506) id BAA10085; Thu, 2 Mar 1995 01:16:16 -0500 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 01:16:16 -0500 From: Jan Labanowski Message-Id: <199503020616.BAA10085@www.ccl.net> To: chemistry@ccl.net Subject: Do you want the CCL list discontinued? Cc: jkl@ccl.net Dear netters, I would like to thank all of you who responded to my cry for help. I will thank you personally, when I close letter collection (in about 2 or so weeks). I am trying to get support for the CCL or otherwise it will be terminated. It is that simple. I need your letters of support to prove "the broad and deep support" for the Computational Chemistry List. Without your letters, my efforts to get support will have less weight. The letters of support should be sent to me. You may include in your letter whatever you think is useful, for example: 1) how long you participate, 2) why it is useful for your 3) how more useful it may be if support is given for future development. Please send them to me by non-electronic mail or FAX. To find the details on what I propose, retrieve the file by sending a message: select chemistry cd ccl-proposal get message.txt quit to MAILSERV@ccl.net You can also view files via WWW: http://www.isc.edu/chemistry.html or gopher: gopher.ccl.net 73 Frankly, I am disappointed. It is my reality check... I include the statistics below without comments. domain) -- the Internet domain for subscribed addresses Subscribers) -- number of addresses in a given Internet domain (remember that many of these addresses are local exploders for CCL and there are more people reading the list than the number of addresses) Letters) -- number of letters received from the domain (yes, I counted if all signatures, if a letter is signed by more than 1 person) % -- ratio of letters to nujber of addresses in a given domain. Again, if all subscribers wrote the letter, it would be greater than 100%, since many addresses are local exploders. ------------------------------------------------------------ domain Subscribers Letters Letters/Subscribers [%] ------------------------------------------------------------ ar 3 0 0.00 at 20 2 10.00 au 53 4 7.55 be 33 2 6.06 br 16 1 6.25 ca 78 11 14.10 ch 26 0 0.00 cl 5 0 0.00 cn 4 0 0.00 co 2 0 0.00 cz 3 1 33.33 de 140 4 2.86 dk 14 3 21.43 ee 4 0 0.00 eg 2 0 0.00 eq 1 0 0.00 es 45 4 8.89 fi 14 1 7.14 fr 40 3 7.50 gr 4 1 25.00 hk 3 0 0.00 hr 7 0 0.00 hu 13 0 0.00 ie 1 0 0.00 il 26 1 3.85 in 10 0 0.00 ir 2 0 0.00 it 33 2 6.06 jp 29 0 0.00 kr 11 0 0.00 lv 1 0 0.00 mk 1 0 0.00 mx 12 0 0.00 nl 42 5 11.90 no 6 1 16.67 nz 2 0 0.00 pl 35 1 2.86 pt 1 1 100.00 ru 4 0 0.00 se 18 1 5.56 sg 5 0 0.00 sk 5 0 0.00 su 5 0 0.00 th 2 0 0.00 tr 3 0 0.00 tw 9 0 0.00 uk 123 6 4.88 us 6 0 0.00 ve 1 0 0.00 za 9 1 11.11 com 342 21 6.14 edu 732 44 6.01 gov 80 2 2.50 mil 15 0 0.00 net 11 0 0.00 org 25 2 8.00 ----------------------------------------- Total: 2137 125 5.85 ============================== Yours as always Jan jkl@ccl.net -- Dr. Jan K. Labanowski, Senior Research/Supercomputer Scientist/Specialist, etc. Ohio Supercomputer Center, 1224 Kinnear Rd, Columbus, OH 43212-1163 ph:(614)-292-9279, FAX:(614)-292-7168, E-mail: jkl@ccl.net JKL@OHSTPY.BITNET From poblopex@sc.ehu.es Thu Mar 2 04:09:07 1995 Received: from scsx01.sc.ehu.es for poblopex@sc.ehu.es by www.ccl.net (8.6.10/930601.1506) id DAA11882; Thu, 2 Mar 1995 03:48:51 -0500 Received: from scdx01.sc.ehu.es by scsx01.sc.ehu.es (4.1/4.7 ) id AA12157; Thu, 2 Mar 95 09:53:19 +0100 Received: by scdx01.sc.ehu.es (5.65/4.7) id AA22668; Thu, 2 Mar 1995 09:49:18 GMT Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 09:49:14 +0000 (WET) From: Xabier Lopez Subject: Re: CCL:EEC summer school (fwd) To: chemistry@ccl.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 19:39:13 +0000 (WET) From: Xabier Lopez To: "Jesus M. Ugalde" Subject: Re: CCL:EEC summer school (fwd) Dear sir: I am Xabier Lopez, a Ph.D. student adscrite to the group of Prof. Jesus M. Ugalde. I am finishing my thesis and I am very interested in going to the EEC summer school. I would like to know if that is still possible or if it is too late to send the form required. I am looking forward to hearing from you, and thank you very much in advance: Xabi From rs0thp@rohmhaas.com Thu Mar 2 09:09:47 1995 Received: from monte.br.rohmhaas.com for rs0thp@rohmhaas.com by www.ccl.net (8.6.10/930601.1506) id IAA14683; Thu, 2 Mar 1995 08:48:20 -0500 Received: by monte.br.rohmhaas.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA24822; Thu, 2 Mar 1995 08:44:07 -0500 From: rs0thp@rohmhaas.com (Dr. Tom Pierce) Message-Id: <9503021344.AA24822@monte.br.rohmhaas.com> Subject: Re: CCL:simplex To: JeanLuc.Verschelde@rug.ac.be (Jean-Luc Verschelde) Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 08:44:06 -0500 (EST) Cc: chemistry@ccl.net In-Reply-To: from "Jean-Luc Verschelde" at Mar 1, 95 05:07:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 503 Previously, Jean-Luc Verschelde wrote: > Where can I find minimization algorithms? > The simplex procedure would be nice. I find excellent numerical software at: http://www.netlib.org and http://gams.nist.gov The GAMS "Guide to Available Mathematical Software" can be accessed by telnetting to gams.nist.gov and following the instructions. -- Sincerely, Thomas Pierce - THPierce@RohmHaas.Com - Computational Chemist "These opinions are those of the writer and not the Rohm and Haas Company." From leboeuf@CERCA.UMontreal.CA Thu Mar 2 10:09:22 1995 Received: from condor.CC.UMontreal.CA for leboeuf@CERCA.UMontreal.CA by www.ccl.net (8.6.10/930601.1506) id JAA15699; Thu, 2 Mar 1995 09:24:56 -0500 From: Received: from balzac.CERCA.UMontreal.CA by condor.CC.UMontreal.CA with SMTP id AA19831 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for CHEMISTRY@ccl.net); Thu, 2 Mar 1995 09:23:03 -0500 Received: from bizet.CERCA.UMontreal.CA by balzac.CERCA.UMontreal.CA (8.6.9/5.17) id JAA21795; Thu, 2 Mar 1995 09:22:20 -0500 Received: by bizet.CERCA.UMontreal.CA (8.6.9/5.17) id JAA02112; Thu, 2 Mar 1995 09:22:18 -0500 Message-Id: <199503021422.JAA02112@bizet.CERCA.UMontreal.CA> Subject: Support Jan and CCL To: CHEMISTRY@ccl.net Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 09:22:18 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 203 Dear CCLers, I am also very disappointed in all of you. If you like the CCL, and if you think it is useful, then you must have time to write a letter to Jan. Martin Leboeuf leboeuf@cerca.umontreal.ca From cletner@remcure.bmb.wright.edu Thu Mar 2 13:09:29 1995 Received: from remcure.bmb.wright.edu for cletner@remcure.bmb.wright.edu by www.ccl.net (8.6.10/930601.1506) id MAA20269; Thu, 2 Mar 1995 12:26:32 -0500 Received: by remcure.bmb.wright.edu (931110.SGI/921111.SGI.AUTO) for CHEMISTRY@ccl.net id AA07608; Thu, 2 Mar 95 12:18:36 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 12:12:07 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Letner Subject: CCL support To: Computational Chemistry List Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Let me chime in and say, I to am disappointed. Do people really think that the CCL isn't usefull? Hey if you had time to read/post to the CCL then you have time to write a letter. If you don't wite in support, then you cannot complain when the CCL is shut down due to lack of support. Regards, Chuck Charles Letner Wright State University Department of Biochemistry Dayton, OH 45435 e-mail: cletner@remcure.bmb.wright.edu From oscar@bilbo.edu.uy Thu Mar 2 14:09:17 1995 Received: from seciu.uy for oscar@bilbo.edu.uy by www.ccl.net (8.6.10/930601.1506) id NAA21959; Thu, 2 Mar 1995 13:51:48 -0500 Received: from bilbo.edu.uy by seciu.uy with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #27) id m0rkFx7-000mAsC; Thu, 2 Mar 95 15:50 GMT-3:00 Received: by bilbo.edu.uy (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA18449; Thu, 2 Mar 1995 15:49:26 -0300 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 15:49:25 -0300 (TZ ) From: "Oscar N. Ventura" To: chemistry@ccl.net Subject: support CCL Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi netters! I hope one can observe in today's postings why one should support Labanowski's efforts. The list needs more moderation, so that certain messages (including this?) do not get distributed. You see, there is certain verbal spanking I can easily live without. O. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Oscar N. Ventura Tel. +(5982)941860 MTC-Lab Fax +(5982)941906 Gral.Flores 2124, C. C. 1157 E-mail oscar@bilbo.edu.uy Montevideo 11800, URUGUAY MTC-Lab http://bilbo.edu.uy/MTC-Lab.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vis@gensia.com Thu Mar 2 15:09:24 1995 Received: from gtc05f for vis@gensia.com by www.ccl.net (8.6.10/930601.1506) id PAA23746; Thu, 2 Mar 1995 15:03:00 -0500 From: Received: from genny (unknown.res.gensia.com) by gtc05f (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA10953; Thu, 2 Mar 1995 11:59:35 -0800 Received: by genny (931110.SGI/930416.SGI.AUTO) for @gtc05f.gensia.com:CHEMISTRY@ccl.net id AA16856; Thu, 2 Mar 95 07:14:51 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 07:14:50 +48000 To: CHEMISTRY@ccl.net Subject: Re: Support to CCL Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello Jan and everybody, We strongly support CCL. I am not sure in what context the discussion came about (because I did not follow the e-mail for 1 month). viswanadhan vis@gensia.com From SATYAM@vms.cis.pitt.edu Thu Mar 2 16:09:21 1995 Received: from myriad.cis.pitt.edu for SATYAM@vms.cis.pitt.edu by www.ccl.net (8.6.10/930601.1506) id PAA24406; Thu, 2 Mar 1995 15:15:14 -0500 From: Received: from vms.cis.pitt.edu by vms.cis.pitt.edu (PMDF V4.3-10 #6609) id <01HNNY48HDY899EP8B@vms.cis.pitt.edu>; Thu, 02 Mar 1995 15:15:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 02 Mar 1995 15:15:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Polarization Propagators in Drug Design...? To: chemistry@ccl.net Message-id: <01HNNY48IQ6A99EP8B@vms.cis.pitt.edu> X-Envelope-to: chemistry@ccl.net X-VMS-To: IN%"chemistry@ccl.net" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dear Netters, Can somebody points us to some references/papers/reviews books which make connection between polarizabilities and drug-design ? Any help will be appreciated Thanks Satyam From cmao771@charon.cc.utexas.edu Thu Mar 2 16:12:16 1995 Received: from hpcf.cc.utexas.edu for cmao771@charon.cc.utexas.edu by www.ccl.net (8.6.10/930601.1506) id QAA25204; Thu, 2 Mar 1995 16:06:59 -0500 Received: from charon.cc.utexas.edu by hpcf.cc.utexas.edu (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA09906; Thu, 2 Mar 1995 15:06:56 -0600 Received: by charon.cc.utexas.edu (5.61/CRI-80.1) id AA64951; Thu, 2 Mar 95 15:06:55 -0600 From: "Isaac B. Bersuker" Message-Id: <9503022106.AA64951@charon.cc.utexas.edu> Subject: Summary of MO LCAO with FC To: chemistry@ccl.net (Computational Chemistry List) Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 15:06:55 CST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] content-length: 12581 Dear Frank Jensen, Stefan Fau, Ross Underhill, Gustavo Mercier, Mayer Istvan, Dennis L. Lichtenberger, David Heisterber, Alain St-Amant, Shridhar Gadre, Thomas Bally, R.L.W.M. Erens, Bingze Wang, Ole Swang, and Gennady Gutsev: First of all, many thanks for your replies to my question about the MO LCAO method with fractional charges. Many answers refer to the Density Function Theory (DFT). We knew, of course, about this possibility, but it does not suit us. Our electronic transparent interface between QM and MM calculated fragments is worked out in the semiempirical MO LCAO approach; DFT is not sufficiently good for geometry optimization, and we have no appropriate programs for the Fenske-Hall method with geometry optimization. The suggestions of David Heisterberg is just what we are now doing to solve the problem, but a question remains open: how to define the multiplicity of an open shell state with frational charges. Below follows my original question and the replies received so far. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ORIGINAL QUESTION Dear Netters: We have a non-trivial problem. Developing a method of semiempirical fragmentary MO LCAO calculations, we encounter the necessity to calculate the electronic structure of molecular systems with FRACTIONAL CHARGES. So far, we couldn't find any existing method which can be easily adapted to include fractional charges; to our knowledge, all the known methods are reasonably assuming that the number of electron is integer. Could anybody help us with suggestions or hints? We promise to generalize the replies for the CCL. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Frank Jensen for the electrons or the nuclei. I have played with the latter in Two possible solutions: introduce fractional charges either another connection. Modifying existing code is trivial. What the "physical" implications are I'm not sure. Frank ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Stefan Fau" Hi, There is a paper on fractional particle numbers in DFT, maybe it's of use: J. P. Perdew, R. G. Parr, M. Levy in: Phys. Rev. Lett. 49 (23), 1691 (1982) Good luck! Stefan Fau, fau@ps1515.chemie.uni-marburg.de FB Chemie der Philipps-Universitaet Marburg, Hans-Meerwein-Str. D-35032 Marburg fau@ps1515.chemie.uni-marburg.de ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: underhil@hp.rmc.ca (Ross Underhill) A tough problem. The way Hyperchem deals with the fragments and the only way that I think will work is to break the molecule at a single bond and then parameterize the missing part of the system with a single s orbital suitably parameterized to represent the missing system. In this way you deal with an integer number of electrons but come up with a fractional charge on the fragment in a natural way because charge transferred to the pseudo atom can be consisdered as lost (or gained) to the system. Obviously some care has to be taken at where you break and how you can parameterize the pseudo orbitals. Dr. Ross Underhill Royal Military College of Canada Kingston, Ontario (613) 541-6000 X6175 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Gustavo Mercier Hi! Although not exactly in the spirit of semiempirical HF like methods, DFT methods using the K-S equations allow you to specify fractional occupation numbers. In fact, Slater's transition state method originally described within the X-alpha approximation uses a fractional occupation. Nothing stops you from making the sum of the fractions less than an integer. ADF can take fractional occupation numbers, although I don't know if the program checks to make sure they add to a whole number. From a computational point of view (and may be even theoretical point of view) you should not have a problem. Gustavo A. Mercier, Jr. mercie@mail.med.cornell.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Mayer Istvan Dear Dr. Bersuker, I suppose, you might calculate systems with fractional charges by introducing explitly some orbitals and assigning to them fractional occupation numbers when building the density matrix. Yours, Prof. Istvan Mayer Budapest ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: DLICHTEN@XRAY0.CHEM.ARIZONA.EDU (DENNIS L. LICHTENBERGER) Isaac, Fenske-Hall calculations easily do fractional charges. You probably know Mike Hall at Texas A&M and can contact him directly about it. Dennis Lichtenberger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: David Heisterberg Can you write an energy expression in the form E = SUM_i {q_i h_ii + SUM_j {a_ij (ii|jj) - b_ij (ij|ij)}} for one of these fractional systems? The a_ij and b_ij are the appropriate coupling coefficients with occupation numbers included. If so, you might look into the way Cadpac does it's generalized SCF. -- David J. Heisterberg (djh@ccl.net) Gee, it's so beautiful, I gotta The Ohio Supercomputer Center give somebody a sock in the jaw. Columbus, Ohio -- Little Skippy (Percy Crosby) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: st-amant@theory.chem.uottawa.ca (Alain St-Amant) Hi, With regards to your post, you might want to consider DFT. The occupation numbers for the KS orbitals can be fractional. In fact, for ionization energies, you sometimes perform SCF calculations on a system with half an electron removed. I had all of this working in my old code deMon. I have no idea if it's still supported or not. In my new code DeFT, I had plans to implement it in the next few months. Alain St-Amant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: gadre@parcom.ernet.in You may consider using DFT-bvased methods. Fractional charge poses no formal problem there..............Shridhar Gadre..22.2.95. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Thomas.Bally@unifr.ch (Thomas Bally) Dear Dr. Bersuker, quite a while ago, during my PhD thesis, I did something which sounds similar to what you wish to do. I was at the time (and, in fact, still quite a while ago, during my PhD thesis, I did something which sounds similar to what you wish to do. I was at the time (and, in fact, still am!) interested in the electronic structure and potential energy surfa- ces of radical ions which I calculated by MINDO/3. Often I ran into con- vergence problems and I developed a bag full of tricks to beat those (they are described in Helv. Chim. Acta 62, 583 (1979), more precisely on pp 585/586, I can senc you a reprint if you have no access to this journal). One of these tricks consisted in starting out with a closed- shell configuration (neutral or dication) and arrive at the desired radical cation by "dropwise" population (from dication) or depopulation (from neutral) of a given MO. For this I had to do SCF calculations with fractional occupation numbers (and hence fractional charges). I actually developed and "interactive" version of the MINDO/3 program where I would put a "drop" of charge into the target MO and watch the SCF calculations converge. If it diverged, I stopped it, went back and put "half a drop" of charge into the MO and so on until I found conditions where it converged. Taken together with the other tricks (symmetrization of the MO's or the F-matrix after every iteration etc.) I often managed to achieve convergence in "impossible" cases and arrive at a set of potential energy curves (cf. Fig. 2 in the above paper) which made sense, although the "stepping stones" used to arrive at states with integral charge were of course entirely unphysical. Unfortunately, I am afraid that I no longer have the code which I used for these calculations. I keep a copy of MOPAC with the MO-filter and the symmetrization (which are also described in the above paper), but the fractional occupation existed only in the "interactive" version which was discarded when I left the University of Basel in 1979. Perhaps it is important to know that the fractional occupation was implemented in a program which used Dewar's "half electron" method to calculated open-shell systems. Thus, I actually always put *pairs of fractional alpha and beta electrons into my target MO. Conceptually,$ it should also be possible to do the same in a UHF way. Feel free to contact me if you have more questions, perhaps I remember some important details whic I forgot to mention here. Sincerely thomas bally *-------------------------------------------------------------------------* *-------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Prof. Thomas Bally | E-mail: Thomas.Bally@unifr.ch | | Institute for Physical Chemistry | WWW page: | | University of Fribourg | http://sgich1.unifr.ch/pc.html | | Perolles | | | CH-1700 FRIBOURG | Tel: 011-41-37 29 8705 | | Switzerland | FAX: 011-41-37 29 9737 | *-------------------------------------------------------------------------* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: erens@chem.rug.nl (R.L.W.M. Erens) Dear Dr. Bersuker, In the DFT-based program DGAUSS you can enter a non-integer occupation number of alpha and beta electrons, using the keyword OCCUP. Best regards, Roger Erens Laboratorium voor Chemische Fysika Nijenborgh 4 9747 AG Groningen The Netherlands tel. +31 50 63 43 77 e-mail erens@chem.rug.nl WWW URL http://rugch5.chem.rug.nl/~erens/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: WANG@IRBM.IT Hi Isaac, Assuming you want an intermdiate 'tool' rather than a physical reality, you may get these numbers by playing the trick of ESP-fitting. Just need a little bit more math on the top of the current approaches: Sum_q(i) = Q(A), atom i is from fragment A. Sum_Q(A) = Qt, Qt is the total charge of the molecule. It might be irrelevant if your question is misunderstood. Bingze Wang ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: oles@kjemi.uio.no If you don't mind using DFT, the program system ADF (Amsterdam Density Functional) can calculate the electronic structure for molecular systems with fractional charges. I haven't tried it myself, but the manual says it's possible. The program is sold at a reasonable price (we paid about 1000$) to academic users. Contact Bert te Velde (tevelde@chem.vu.nl) for additional information. Good luck, Ole Swang ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: GLG@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU Dear Isaak Borisovich, I really happy to hear from You. Some answer about fractional charges may come from the density functional. Actually, I was trying to fix fractional charge in my DVM-X(alpha) program in order to calculate the core energy shifts in molecules like SF6. The input has to contain the imlicitly defined occupation numbers (with accounting for the MO symmetry, if exists). In this way You may form "charges" on any internal MO, not only the external one - with obvious tracing the orbital when iterating for self-concistency - the easest way to check the AO occupations. I had used it when calculating Auger spectra in systems with several atoms of the same type. It is easy to do if You trace the core orbitals, for higher MOs the "adhesion" to the same MO is more complicated. With my personal regards, Gennady Gutsev Visiting scholar -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Isaac B. Bersuker | E-mail: Welch 3.140 | cmao771@charon.cc.utexas.edu (prefered) Dept. of Chemistry | bersuker@eeyore.cm.utexas.edu Univeristy of Texas at Austin | Phone: (512) 471-4671 Austin, TX 78712 | Fax: (512) 471-8696 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From jkong@is.dal.ca Thu Mar 2 21:09:10 1995 Received: from is.dal.ca for jkong@is.dal.ca by www.ccl.net (8.6.10/930601.1506) id UAA29341; Thu, 2 Mar 1995 20:20:05 -0500 Received: by is.dal.ca (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA134686; Thu, 2 Mar 1995 21:19:45 -0400 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 21:19:44 -0400 (AST) From: Jing Kong Subject: Re: CCL:CCL support To: Charles Letner Cc: Computational Chemistry List In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dear netters, I have to admit that I just read the Jan's proposal today; so I am one of those who should be ashamed of :-(. My impression of that proposal is that things like international conferences, workshops and some sort of organization sound too ambitious. I thought that the info_highway would make communication and learning simpler and easier. Anyways, I think Jan's effort can't be overestimated and many of us owe him a lot. It would be unreasonable and unfair to ask him or anyone else to continue the job of management without funding. I do think there should be a change. I guess what I would like see is that Jan gets some funding so that he can be freed from some of his current researching and/or teaching duties. But then the money will bring in some constraints. Right now, we enjoy complete freedom on Internet and everything is done on volunteering basis. So I don't know. I have to say that I don't intend to open the discussion of Jan's proposal, although I am sort of curious what other people think. Regards, Jing