From chemistry-request: at :ccl.net Wed Jan 12 19:57:42 2005 Received: from exmails1.chem.ucla.edu (exmails1.chem.ucla.edu [169.232.134.2]) by server.ccl.net (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j0D0veg5024068 for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 19:57:41 -0500 Received: from chem.ucla.edu (d-128-97-138-237.chem.ucla.edu [128.97.138.237]) by exmails1.chem.ucla.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id j0D0veRB003139; Wed, 12 Jan 2005 16:57:40 -0800 Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 17:03:15 -0800 Subject: Re: CCL:orbitals and reality Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Cc: chemistry^at^ccl.net To: Sengen Sun From: Eric Scerri In-Reply-To: <20050112053422.66343.qmail^at^web51304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=7.5 tests=SMILEY autolearn=no version=2.61 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.61 (1.212.2.1-2003-12-09-exp) on servernd.ccl.net I havn't had a chance to look at the Nature paper in detail yet but I note on the first line of the paper that the authors say that orbitals are mathematical constructs or words to that effect. Why are they saying this since they promptly proceed to tell us that they have observed some orbitals? Now I need to read the paper and the editorial. Note also that no reference whatsoever is made to the reports from 1999 coming from Arizona State or any of the responses from those who disputed the claims. This is equally true of the primary paper and the editorial in Nature. regards, eric scerri On Tuesday, January 11, 2005, at 09:34 PM, Sengen Sun wrote: > Sorry for another posting on this subject. I am very > disappointed that I have not received any disagreement > to my earlier postings in the last two weeks. Instead, > I have been praised by four CCL friends who exchanged > personal e-mails with me. I wish to make a short > comment on one of Dr. Matt Challacombe's messages. > > I agree well with Matt. But the current problem is > much worse than one with a first year organic > chemistry student. It is about problems with some > scientific experts in the fields of physics and > chemical physcics. > > I just noticed that the Nature paper also made a front > page in C & En News (12/24/04) without mentioning the > controversies such as those mentioned in Dr. Eric > Scerri's JCE paper. A CCL friend used a quoted word > "triumph" to describe this situation and predicted > more "triumphs" are coming of orbital observation. > Unfortunately, these "triumphs" have already gone very > very wrong and gone way too too far. > > Why is that? Do we really care? > > Sengen > sengensun^at^yahoo.com > > > --- Matt Challacombe wrote: > >> I would say also that you can compute several of >> these >> properties without resorting to MO's at all, I >> believe. >> A coorespondence does not an existence proof make! >> (unless you are a first year organic chemistry major >> ;) >> >> -M >> > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 > > > -= This is automatically added to each message by the mailing script =- > To send e-mail to subscribers of CCL put the string CCL: on your > Subject: line > and send your message to: CHEMISTRY^at^ccl.net > > Send your subscription/unsubscription requests to: > CHEMISTRY-REQUEST^at^ccl.net > HOME Page: http://www.ccl.net | Jobs Page: http://www.ccl.net/jobs > > If your mail is bouncing from CCL.NET domain send it to the maintainer: > Jan Labanowski, jlabanow^at^nd.edu (read about it on CCL Home Page) > -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > +-+ > > > > > Dr. Eric Scerri, Department of Chemistry & Biochemistry, UCLA, Los Angeles, CA 90095- 1569 E-mail scerri^at^chem.ucla.edu Tel: 310 206 7443 Web Page: http://www.chem.ucla.edu/dept/Faculty/scerri/ Editor of Foundations of Chemistry, http://www.kluweronline.com/issn/1386-4238 Also see International Society for the Philosophy of Chemistry http://www.georgetown.edu/earleyj/ISPC.html