From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Sun Oct 16 05:36:00 2011 From: "Sebastian Kozuch kozuchs^_^yahoo.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: Science code manifesto Message-Id: <-45649-111016050644-9691-7hp5WbYxH/MyEMAnEtHjsw%%server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Sebastian Kozuch Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-1080416818-798398627-1318755958=:51864" Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 02:05:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: Sebastian Kozuch [kozuchs^^yahoo.com] ---1080416818-798398627-1318755958=:51864 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I like the idea of open software, and in principle I support=0Athe proposal= of having access to the software code for the possibility of full=0Areview= of a theoretical work. However, I feel that this is more wishful=0Athinkin= g than real scientific life.=0A=C2=A0=0ALet=E2=80=99s say that I receive a = manuscript for review that uses=0Aprogram X, which I may have access to its= code now (since I=E2=80=99m the reviewer). Do=0AI have to spend a week try= ing to understand its algorithms to check if the=0Afrequencies are correctl= y calculated? For me, most (if not all) the programs are=0Ain practice blac= k boxes, as I=E2=80=99m hardly a programmer. Therefore, open or closed=0Aso= ftware (usually) doesn=E2=80=99t make me any difference, except from a phil= osophical perspective.=0A=0A=C2=A0=0ANow, let me consider an analogy from e= xperimental chemistry.=0AI have to review a manuscript where the authors te= sted some compound with a 600=0AMHz NMR. My lab is much more humble, and I = only have access to a 400 MHz NMR.=0AId est, I cannot reproduce the results= of the paper that I=E2=80=99m reviewing. Is here=0Aany difference compared= to the theoretical case?=0A=C2=A0=0AI had in a couple of cases problems to= reproduce the results=0Aof papers, mostly because the authors didn=E2=80= =99t provide enough information.=0AHowever, for 100% reproducibility I need= 100% the same conditions (and a lot of=0Aresources and time). This makes t= he selection of the software just a small=0Aissue.=0A=C2=A0=0AI would like = to hear the thoughts of other people about this=0Aissue, as I consider the = peer reviewing process a very complex and far from=0Aperfect system.=0A=C2= =A0=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ASebastian=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AF= rom: Brian.James.Duke{:}gmail.com =0ATo: "Kozuch, = Sebastian " =0ASent: Friday, October 14, 2011 11= :18 PM=0ASubject: CCL: Science code manifesto=0A=0A=0AI just encountered th= e Science Code Manifesto, which essentially states=0Athat all computer code= used for scientific analysis and modeling should=0Abe available for review= . It appears to have started with the Climate=0ACode Foundation. I encour= age you to visit the web site and consider=0Aendorsing the Manifesto.=0A=0A= http://sciencecodemanifesto.org/=0A=0ANote that this is not specifying open= source code, so GAMESS(US),=0AGAMESS(UK), DALTON etc., as well as open sou= rce codes such as PSI3 amd=0AMPQC satisfies the points of the manifesto. Of= course some other quantum=0Achemistry codes do not. I think we should be p= utting pressure on the=0Aauthors of such codes to meet the criteria in this= manifesto.=0A=0ABrian. ---1080416818-798398627-1318755958=:51864 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=0A=0A
I like the idea of open software, and in principle I support=0Athe= proposal of having access to the software code for the possibility of full= =0Areview of a theoretical work. However, I feel that this is more wishful= =0Athinking than real scientific life.
=0A=0A
=  
=0A=0A
Let=E2=80=99s say that I receive= a manuscript for review that uses=0Aprogram X, which I may have access to = its code now (since I=E2=80=99m the reviewer). Do=0AI have to spend a week = trying to understand its algorithms to check if the=0Afrequencies are corre= ctly calculated? For me, most (if not all) the programs are=0Ain practice b= lack boxes, as I=E2=80=99m hardly a programmer. Therefore, open or closed= =0Asoftware (usually) doesn=E2=80=99t make me any difference, except from a= philosophical perspective.
=0A=0A
 <= /div>=0A=0A
Now, let me consider an analogy from ex= perimental chemistry.=0AI have to review a manuscript where the authors tes= ted some compound with a 600=0AMHz NMR. My lab is much more humble, and I o= nly have access to a 400 MHz NMR.=0AId est, I cannot reproduce the results = of the paper that I=E2=80=99m reviewing. Is here=0Aany difference compared = to the theoretical case?
=0A=0A
 
= =0A=0A
I had in a couple of cases problems to repro= duce the results=0Aof papers, mostly because the authors didn=E2=80=99t pro= vide enough information.=0AHowever, for 100% reproducibility I need 100% th= e same conditions (and a lot of=0Aresources and time). This makes the selec= tion of the software just a small=0Aissue.
=0A=0A
 
=0A=0A
I would like to hear the tho= ughts of other people about this=0Aissue, as I consider the peer reviewing = process a very complex and far from=0Aperfect system.
=0A=0A
 = ;



Sebastian


From: Brian.James.Du= ke{:}gmail.com <owner-chemistry(a)ccl.net>
To: "Kozuch, Sebastian " <kozuchs(a)yahoo.= com>
Sent: Friday, O= ctober 14, 2011 11:18 PM
Subject:<= /span> CCL: Science code manifesto

=0A
I just encountered the Science Code Manifesto, which essentially sta= tes
that all computer code used for scientific analysis and modeling sho= uld
be available for review. It appears to have started with the Climat= e
Code Foundation. I encourage you to visit the web site and considerendorsing the Manifesto.

http://sciencecodemanifesto.org/

N= ote that this is not specifying open source code, so GAMESS(US),
GAMESS(= UK), DALTON etc., as well as open source codes such as PSI3 amd
MPQC sat= isfies the points of the manifesto. Of course some other quantum
chemist= ry codes do not. I think we should be putting pressure on the
authors of= such codes to meet the criteria in this manifesto.

Brian.

=
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